[effervesce]

East opens 2♠, a 5 card 8-11HCP hand. Do you overcall 3♥ with

Scoring: IMP

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[jdonn]

I vote pass. Just too risky for me.

[benlessard]

bidding here is so sick.

[mr1303]

Bidding here could work out very well or very badly. If it catches partner with a fair hand and a fit, we will make a game that may well be missed if I pass. Against that, if partner has a poor hand we will go for a telephone number with opponents unable to make anything.

I will pass, but will admit that it is close.

[P_Marlowe]

pass, but i think it is close.

Given that 2S is constr., pass is certainly the smarter choice.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

I'd need the heart Jack to bid. The 1098 would tempt me. As it is, I'm not interested.

[655321]

Didn't we start with xxx in spades and the Ace of diamonds?

Anyway, with 3 cards in spades I pass.

With the same heart suit and a doubleton spade I will happily overcall 3♥.

[rogerclee]

I'm out. If partner can't double, it is relatively unlikely we can make game. Going for a number here opposite nothing is also a very real possibility.

[pclayton]

All defense; little offense. Pass. The fact that you have a Fantoni-esque 'weak' 2 is even greater cause for concern.

[gnasher]

3♥. Pass seems rather conservative.

[skjaeran]

With three defensive tricks and an empty suit, I'm a passer.

I'm fully aware we might miss a game, but the downside is too great, I think.

[ulven]

I'm a bidder. But then I generally overcall a lot more on the 2 and 3-level than the vast majority.

[FrancesHinden]

I'm a bidder. I don't call three aces "lots of defence and little offence"

[jdonn]

Isn't anyone impacted by the description of 2♠? It slightly reduces partner's expect heart length, and strength, relative to a "normal" weak 2.

I should say I see some people considered that. What about the bidders, maybe someone didn't notice? The thread title is a bit deceiving, after all.

[cherdano]

jdonn, on Oct 9 2008, 12:57 PM, said:

Isn't anyone impacted by the description of 2♠? It slightly reduces partner's expect heart length, and strength, relative to a "normal" weak 2.

I should say I see some people considered that. What about the bidders, maybe someone didn't notice? The thread title is a bit deceiving, after all.

I am not sure how it should affect our choice.
- Overcalling 3♥ is more dangerous, it is easier for LHO to double.
+ We may miss game more easily. With 3 spades partner will pass with many hands where game is good.

I think - is worth more IMPs than +.

[xcurt]

Why is everyone hating the heart suit so much? Which has a greater trick expectation integrated over partner's possible hands -- the hand we hold, or Axx, KJ976x, xx, Ax?

I think they are about the same in the heart suit, and having the trump ace gives us more possible lines of play in how we handle the offsuits.

Also, the argument that the opponents can double us more readily with the 2♠ method they used cuts both ways. Partner also has to be cautious balancing -- and he has zero or one aces and therefore much more reason to fear conceding a big penalty.

[gnasher]

jdonn, on Oct 9 2008, 07:57 PM, said:

Isn't anyone impacted by the description of 2♠? It slightly reduces partner's expect heart length, and strength, relative to a "normal" weak 2.

I should say I see some people considered that. What about the bidders, maybe someone didn't notice? The thread title is a bit deceiving, after all.

Not being a tooth, I wouldn't describe myself as being impacted, but yes, I was aware of the description when I made my choice. Had it been a normal weak two, I would have used a stronger word for the pass than "conservative".

[the hog]

gnasher, on Oct 10 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

Not being a tooth, I wouldn't describe myself as being impacted.

However you could only be impacted if you had wisdom.

[jdonn]

xcurt, on Oct 9 2008, 11:20 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating the heart suit so much?  Which has a greater trick expectation integrated over partner's possible hands -- the hand we hold, or Axx, KJ976x, xx, Ax?

In hearts? THIS ONE! Meaning, your example suit.

[xcurt]

jdonn, on Oct 10 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

xcurt, on Oct 9 2008, 11:20 PM, said:

Why is everyone hating the heart suit so much?  Which has a greater trick expectation integrated over partner's possible hands -- the hand we hold, or Axx, KJ976x, xx, Ax?

In hearts? THIS ONE! Meaning, your example suit.

Give partner ♥xx. Let's analyze a 4-1 break with ♥AQ offside (you can put the ♥T onside stiff if you like). The bad guys are going to make two trump tricks on power and probably will tap you out to make a long one. If the hearts split 3-2 with length over you, you need two honors tight onside to do better than I will with ace-empty-sixth.

Plus, having the ace is just huge on a hand like this since we can control the number of rounds of trumps taken out. Often that's worth at least one trick in the play.

You can go through a bunch of these analyses, or you can just consider that the longer the suit, the more the relative rank of the ace versus the king, and the less the relative value of the secondary honors and high spots versus the low spots.

I still like overcalling.