[kgr]

Scoring: IMP

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1NT-(2C!)-Pas-(2D!)
P-(P)-??
 
2C=dont, C and another
2D=don't like Clubs
 
You play take out doubles and lebensohl with your partner.
Do you agree with initial pass?
Do you pass again (should DBL still be takeout?)

[gnasher]

I agree with the first pass - if 2♣ gets passed around to partner, he'll double with a doubleton; if he has three, we've probably missed a 300 penalty, but that's a feature of the methods.

Over 2♦, I think that a double by either hand should be for takeout. It's surprising that partner hasn't doubled, but I can't do anything about that now. Any action would probably turn a plus into a minus.

[helene_t]

Agree.

[Codo]

Surely depends on methods.

I would like to play take out doubles here like gnasher, so now I must pass or bid 2 NT. I will go for 2 NT.

[gwnn]

I agree with Gnasher but I think partner didn't think his random 4423 or (43)24 thereabouts with 16 hcp was worth a t/o dbl because maybe he didn't realize double of 2♦ was for t/o. Oh well.

[kgr]

Partner had 4=3=2=4 and didn't want to DBL with his 2c♥.
I couldn't resist to DBL (you never know partner passes this or 3NT makes).
..
1NT-(2C!)-P-(2D)
P-(p)-DBL-(p)
2S-(p)-2NT-All pass
The dont overcaller did lead a small Club from AKxxx and my partner failed to play the Q and 2NT was -1. (I don't know his exact cards but it has 1st trick that was important)

[benlessard]

Quote

It's surprising that partner hasn't doubled, but I can't do anything about that now. Any action would probably turn a plus into a minus.

My requirement for a take-out double by opener = not a minimum hand hand and xx (not Hx) in diamonds. Some other players require exact 4-4 in the majors.

One thing is sure however is that responder X should be penalty or at least show cards since he can bid 2H to show a weakish both major take-out.

Taht game is a good bet here is so unlikely that its like the perfect time to X and i expect partner to lead a trump if hes got something in clubs.

[gnasher]

I agree with Ben that a double of 2♦ should show defensive values. That implies that he has length in clubs, because he didn't double 2♣.

Playing double of 2♦ for penalties makes it simple to cope with the hands where responder has length in both of their suits. However, it leaves you poorly placed when responder has length in the first-bid suit but not in his second (eg Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx). The second hand-type is more frequent, but I suppose that the penalties are juicier with the first.

Playing double of 2♦ as takeout allows you to cope with the second hand-type well. If opener doubles 2♦ on most hands with a doubleton, we still catch them most of the time that responder has a penalty double of both suits.

[han]

Clear pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 Pass over 2C is clear, what else?
#2 Now pass as well, for me X would still
be takeout, implying club length

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

Double is takeout for me so I have to pass.

I'm starting to revisit some of the auctions when they butt in with 2♣. If double is Stayman, which is how most people play it, then pass is obvious. But if double is cards, then I have an easy double and double of 2♦ which is what I really want to do.

If double is card-showing initially, I don't think it precludes finding a 4-4 major fit later.

I hate the idea of passing and the 1N opener having to take a call over 2♦ with short diamonds. How can a limited balanced hand unilaterally compete in an auction like this?

[benlessard]

If you want to compete with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx (i dont) you still can bid 2H. If you dont want to use the double as penalty than you should use X to show 4H & 3S and bid 2H to show 4-3. With 4-4 you would have double 2C anyway.

[gnasher]

benlessard, on Oct 6 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

If you want to compete with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx (i dont) you still can bid 2H. If you dont want to use the double as penalty than you should use X to show 4H & 3S and bid 2H to show 4-3. With 4-4 you would have double 2C anyway.

It's not that I want to compete: if partner has four reasonable diamonds, I want to take a penalty.

[skjaeran]

gnasher, on Oct 8 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

benlessard, on Oct 6 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

If you want to compete with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx (i dont) you still can bid 2H. If you dont want to use the double as penalty than you should use X to show 4H & 3S and bid 2H to show 4-3. With 4-4 you would have double 2C anyway.

It's not that I want to compete: if partner has four reasonable diamonds, I want to take a penalty.

How many diamonds are there in the pack?

You've got four, RHO's got four and LHO's got three, leaving partner with two. Unless a wheel has fallen off for opps. In which case you shouldn't help them find a better spot.

[gnasher]

skaeran, on Oct 8 2008, 07:00 PM, said:

gnasher, on Oct 8 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

benlessard, on Oct 6 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

If you want to compete with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx (i dont) you still can bid 2H. If you dont want to use the double as penalty than you should use X to show 4H & 3S and bid 2H to show 4-3. With 4-4 you would have double 2C anyway.

It's not that I want to compete: if partner has four reasonable diamonds, I want to take a penalty.

How many diamonds are there in the pack?

You've got four, RHO's got four and LHO's got three, leaving partner with two. Unless a wheel has fallen off for opps. In which case you shouldn't help them find a better spot.

No, I had 2. We were discussing responder's actions with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx. Do try to keep up.

[skjaeran]

gnasher, on Oct 9 2008, 11:40 AM, said:

skaeran, on Oct 8 2008, 07:00 PM, said:

gnasher, on Oct 8 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

benlessard, on Oct 6 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

If you want to compete with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx (i dont) you still can bid 2H. If you dont want to use the double as penalty than you should use X to show 4H & 3S and bid 2H to show 4-3. With 4-4 you would have double 2C anyway.

It's not that I want to compete: if partner has four reasonable diamonds, I want to take a penalty.

How many diamonds are there in the pack?

You've got four, RHO's got four and LHO's got three, leaving partner with two. Unless a wheel has fallen off for opps. In which case you shouldn't help them find a better spot.

No, I had 2. We were discussing responder's actions with Qxxx Kxx xx K10xx. Do try to keep up.

Sorry, my fault.

Agree with you.