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Chinese hand

#1 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-October-06, 21:42

10854
AK10
9x
xxxx

A7
9x
AK10x
AKQxx



South plays 6C on the lead of the spade 6. I don't know what carding this Russian pair used but let's say they use 3/low. Plan the play.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#2 User is offline   Simplicity 

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Posted 2008-October-07, 05:24

How about duck the first spade and win the return (presumably a spade), then cash two top clubs. If clubs are 2-2 claim, if they are 3-1 draw the outstanding trump cash the AK, ruff a diamond, ruff a spade back to hand.

With only 1 player able to guard each of spades and diamonds hopefully the last trump will execute a simple squeeze or double squeeze if the heart honours are split
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#3 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-October-07, 05:47

Agree cant find anything better
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#4 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-October-07, 07:08

Well, I can improve that line slightly.
Win the opening lead.
Cash the AK of clubs. If all follow, claim.
If someone blows, draw the last trump and concede a spade.
Win the heart(?) return (that's worst), take a diamond ruff, ruff a spade to hand, cash the last trump.

This the same as your line, but avoids going off when RHO has KQJxxx spades.

This line isn't brilliant, because of the entry problems. It basically needs spades to be guarded on our left and diamonds on our right because of the entry problems.

None of the simple squeezes work. For example, if LHO is, say, 4243, he discards a heart on the last trump.

The alternative is to ruff two diamonds in dummy. That needs trumps 2-2 or the long diamond(s) to be with the long trumps. It also has slight entry difficulties. Win the lead, CA, DAK ruff (I think is best), CK, D ruff, taxi back to hand to draw the last trump. You are rather better if RHO has the long trumps than LHO.

If you take two top trumps first you don't pay out to someone being 2=3 in the minors, but you need to get back to hand twice now (heart ruff and spade ruff) which is more dangerous.
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 00:38

you can also take a double finese, at leas one of them was working :)
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#6 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 03:51

FrancesHinden, on Oct 7 2008, 02:08 PM, said:

Well, I can improve that line slightly.
Win the opening lead.
Cash the AK of clubs. If all follow, claim.
If someone blows, draw the last trump and concede a spade.
Win the heart(?) return (that's worst), take a diamond ruff, ruff a spade to hand, cash the last trump.

After the second spade, they won't return a heart - they'll play back a third spade. Once you've ruffed a heart you'll be stranded in dummy and forced to ruff your spade menace.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 07:15

The Indian declarer won the opening lead and played two rounds of trumps, east showing out on the second.

Now declarer played diamond, diamond, diamond ruff, heart, heart, heart ruff and the fourth diamond. It looks to me like this is a 0% line. Even if West can follow to 3 rounds of hearts and 4 rounds of diamonds, once you ruff the fourth diamond in dummy you have to exit with a spade and East will win (Unless West led low from Qx). Then west can just play the major in which West has no cards left.

If you plan to ruff two diamonds in dummy then you should duck the opening lead. That way you guarantee the contract when west is 3343. Of course you lose when trumps were splitting and spades are 6-1. I don't remember the auction but it is possible that KQJxxx can be ruled out.

The commentaters were all for taking the double diamond hook. It works.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#8 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 07:52

I'm confused. West led the 6 from a 6-card spade suit? I assume from KJ9632?

This is a little awkward. As gnasher points out, playing this double squeeze puts you at risk of various ruffs. If you duck the spade, you go off if a spade ruff comes back - even if it doesn't at once, you are still going to have to cash the ace of spades before drawing all the trumps. If you take the spade and play one back at once, you might get caught by a trump promotion if spades are 5-2 and the short spade has singleton trump honour.
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 08:05

West had Q96 of spades I believe, sorry if I phrased something badly.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#10 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 08:10

han, on Oct 8 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

West had Q96 of spades I believe, sorry if I phrased something badly.

Not as such, you just got the black suits mixed up. Easy mistake
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-October-08, 08:12

Ah alright, I changed it to "trumps" in one spot, any more mistakes?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-October-09, 03:29

FrancesHinden, on Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

As gnasher points out, playing this double squeeze puts you at risk of various ruffs.

That wasn't what I pointed out. My point was that when you lead your squeeze card you won't actually have a spade menace left, because you will have had to use it as an entry.

I think Simplicity's suggestion is clearly best. It loses only when LHO is 1=2 in the black suits.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-October-12, 19:58

FrancesHinden, on Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

As gnasher points out, playing this double squeeze puts you at risk of various ruffs.

gnasher, on Oct 9 2008, 04:29 AM, said:

That wasn't what I pointed out.  My point was that when you lead your squeeze card you won't actually have a spade menace left, because you will have had to use it as an entry.
I think Simplicity's suggestion is clearly best.  It loses only when LHO is 1=2 in the black suits.
I prefer Frances' suggestion (Win the opening lead, draw trumps, and exit in ). If opponents lead 3/5 and West really has Q96, then opponents lead a 3rd round of , at their peril. On the contrary, you, yourself, might even set up a for your 12th trick by force.
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-October-13, 03:02

nige1, on Oct 13 2008, 02:58 AM, said:

I prefer Frances' suggestion (Win the opening lead, draw trumps, and exit in ). If opponents lead 3/5 and West really has Q96, then opponents lead a 3rd round of , at their peril. On the contrary, you, yourself, might even set up a for your 12th trick by force.

If LHO has only three spades, the double squeeze doesn't work anyway, so you will be reduced to a simple red-suit squeeze. If that's working, I will also make.

Taking the first spade loses when LHO has Q96x and a double squeeze would operate. RHO can win the second spade and pay a third one, without setting up a trick.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#15 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2008-October-15, 06:15

nige1, on Oct 13 2008, 02:58 AM, said:

I prefer Frances' suggestion (Win the opening lead, draw trumps, and exit in ). If opponents lead 3/5 and West really has Q96, then opponents lead a 3rd round of , at their peril. On the contrary, you, yourself, might even set up a for your 12th trick by force.

gnasher, on Oct 13 2008, 04:02 AM, said:

If LHO has only three spades, the double squeeze doesn't work anyway, so you will be reduced to a simple red-suit squeeze.  If that's working, I will also make.
Taking the first spade loses when LHO has Q96x and a double squeeze would operate.  RHO can win the second spade and pay a third one, without setting up a trick.

Gnasher's argument is powerful. But Frances' line seems preferrable because it preserves the chance of setting up a trick. On reflection, a compromise may be possible:
At trick one, still win RHO's honour with the Ace. Now cash AK.
  • If both foloow, then claim.
  • If RHO shows out then cash Q and exit in .
  • If LHO shows out then *immediately* lead a 3rd , to preserve double- squeeze chances, without communication problems.

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