[jdonn]

Who says those differences are at all slight?

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Oct 6 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

Who says those differences are at all slight?

OK. Take a hand where the clearly right plan is to overcall 2♦ and then reopen with a double if necessary. Then take a hand where doubling is clearly right.

Now, change the cards for each so that the two hand start to look more-and-more alike. My guess is that, at some point, you will use some set of rules or some relatively minor features of the hands to decide when one call is beter than the other.

As an example, I would hope that V-Axx-AKJ98x-Qxxx is clearly a candidate for 2♦ and that x-Axxx-AJ98-AQ10x is clearly a double.

The proposed hand is xx-Axx-AJ98x-AQ10.

A slightly different hand would be x-Axx-AJ98xx-AQ10, and that screams 2♦, I hope. But, what about xx-xxx-AKJ98-AQ10?

For me, the actual hand was on the border, but the factors leaning toward 2♦ were described, and I believe quite detailed. I also believe that they were more useful than "I gots three of each suit, or more." That's a useless standard, IMO.

[benlessard]

I think you need a week off Ken Go get some mountain air and when you ll be back im sure you ll double instead of overcalling 2D.

[helene_t]

Yeah agree with Ben.

[mcphee]

Dble is atuomatic to me and the 2D overcall just pointless.

[ASkolnick]

I'm glad people know how much experience I have or where I have played.

I am not saying double can't work out, and I think it is OK if you decide to double. But to say on what Ken, I and some other people consider a border-line hand.

However when you say "How can you possibly bid 2♦?" is preposterous. If you want to say "I feel a double may work out better since it brings all suits into play and my diamonds aren't that good." I don't agree, but I can live with that as a choice.

I have played many hands and found off-shape "flexible" doubles (6-4-2-1, 5-5-3-0 (although this probably does not qualify), do not work out very well because partner then tends to penalize when you have a large fit.

[kenberg]

I am with what appears to be a majority with a double. A 4-3 fit with short spades can be playable if not ideal. A 5-1 fit is not so good especially with a marginal suit. And if we have an eight card fit somewhere, X is the most likely way to find it.

I suppose that more often than not we need to find a strain where we can compete to the 3 level and sell to 3S (unless partner has the stuff to hit it). X should do the job.

[FrancesHinden]

ASkolnick, on Oct 7 2008, 02:46 PM, said:

I have played many hands and found off-shape "flexible" doubles (6-4-2-1, 5-5-3-0 (although this probably does not qualify), do not work out very well because partner then tends to penalize when you have a large fit.

But this point is unrelated to the discussion at hand. A 2=3=5=3 double of a 1S opening is not 'off-shape' and should not lead to an unexpectedly large fit somewhere.

To me, this is an obvious double.

What is a more interesting hand is if you swap the red suits so that you have five hearts over a 1S opening.

[jdonn]

Wow 2♦ bidders are so sensitive! Ok, good bid guys, everyone can be friends now, hakuna matata.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Oct 7 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

Wow 2♦ bidders are so sensitive! Ok, good bid guys, everyone can be friends now, hakuna matata.

Well, it is kind of funny, seeing that I would double if I did not have the diamond 8. Not that much of a debate, really. LOL

[helene_t]

Last week at the club I played with a p whom I never played with before. She is a good player but like almost everyone at the club has some (in my view) oldfashioned ideas about bidding.

In a very similar situation she doubled. When tabling the dummy she said:
p: "I would normally bid 2♦ with this hand but from playing against you I got the impression that you prefer double"
me: "Absolutely, double is much better Thank you partner, well bid!"
p(laughing): "As long as you are happy I am happy"

I made 2♥ in the 4-3 fit. I believe it was the best contract.

[FrancesHinden]

helene_t, on Oct 7 2008, 05:33 PM, said:

p(laughing): "As long as you are happy I am happy"

keep her. Best type of partner in the world.

[mikeh]

I used to overcall these hands. Now I double. I'm happier now.

So are my partners and teammates.