[mike777]

Lobowolf, on Sep 26 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

Keep in mind over 40% of Americans pay zero in income tax.

Lest you think that's too much, they'll probably be getting rebates soon!

I just hope we can get over 50% of the voters not paying any income tax....then we can really have some power and pass alot of stuff.

Just no VAT please.......

[kenberg]

Mike, the note from the CFA (Certified Financial something or others I suppose? A=Accountants I guess although other possibilities come to mind) looks to be worth reading and thinking about. Thanks.

I don't owe any money, no one owes me money, I own a perfectly satisfactory house that is paid for, most of my investment is handled by places such as TIAA-CREF and I think little about it. I have no credit card debt. I have Medicare and supplemental coverage. I lead a simple life.


What I want, very much, is that people who hold a great deal of money and power do not screw things up. To me, it has been obvious for at least ten years that credit card debt is completely out of control, and when the great housing appreciation was in progress I thought it reached insane levels. You heard about people with very modest jobs buying $500,000 houses. No matter the sophistication of the financial environment, you just cannot spend more money than you make forever. If I could look at all this debt and say it is nuts, why could not the bankers, investment or otherwise? Why couldn't Congress? Or FNMA (I gather you are connected with them but I am not holding you personally responsible)? These guys are supposed to be professionals and know what they are doing. It is not very soothing to know that the same guys who brought us to this mess are the ones who are going to steer us, hopefully, out of it.



But it was McCain's actions that prompted the post this morning. Loose cannon doesn't begin to describe it.

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:52 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Sep 26 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

Keep in mind over 40% of Americans pay zero in income tax.

Lest you think that's too much, they'll probably be getting rebates soon!

I just hope we can get over 50% of the voters not paying any income tax....then we can really have some power and pass alot of stuff.

Just no VAT please.......

What is the percentage if we only consider adults?

[mike777]

kenberg, on Sep 26 2008, 03:56 PM, said:

Mike, the note from the CFA (Certified Financial something or others I suppose? A=Accountants I guess although other possibilities come to mind) looks to be worth reading and thinking about. Thanks.

I don't owe any money, no one owes me money, I own a perfectly satisfactory house that is paid for, most of my investment is handled by places such as TIAA-CREF and I think little about it. I have no credit card debt. I have Medicare and supplemental coverage.  I lead a simple life.


What I want, very much, is that people who hold a great deal of money and power do not screw things up. To me, it has been obvious for at least ten years that credit card debt is completely out of control, and when the great housing appreciation was in progress I thought it reached insane levels. You heard about people with very modest jobs buying $500,000 houses. No matter the sophistication of the financial environment, you just cannot spend more money than you make forever. If I could look at all this debt and say it is nuts, why could not the bankers, investment or otherwise? Why couldn't Congress? Or FNMA (I gather you are connected with them but I am not holding you personally responsible)? These guys are supposed to be professionals and know what they are doing. It is not very soothing to know that the same guys who brought us to this mess are the ones who are going to steer us, hopefully, out of it.



But it was McCain's actions that prompted the post this morning. Loose cannon doesn't begin to describe it.

Lol I have a CFA Charter and we are not accountants...
Chartered Financial Analyst.
I work for TIAA-CREF lol. We have a weird and complicated ownership structure....I bet 99% of the people working there do not understand it. Andrew Carnegie started the company....nonprofit and not for profit is not quite the same thing but it is complicated.

My wife is a top complaince manager for one the largest banks in the usa if not theworld. Her stories are so funny. The public has no idea how much regulation there is already, just that regulation does not mean not going out of business.

Having lived in CAlif, I never understood how people could afford the homes out there. $500,000 bought you total junk house. granted this is West of I5 but why live in calif east of I5

Note we can talk about 3 major kinds of debt.
home loans
credit cards.
Billions in overnight lending.

add in if 90% of us live paycheck to paycheck and owe on credit cards and owe alot on our homes....it adds up.

[y66]

Quote

Similarly, will doing nothing make it worse?

It's already getting worse. The WSJ reported today that new unemployment filings for the week ended Sept 20 hit the highest level since 9/11.

Don't think doing nothing is a choice. Even Paul Krugman (the guy who coined "cash for trash") agrees that something has to be done.

[luke warm]

i have absolutely no idea whether it's better to do something or do nothing... like ken, i owe nobody and nobody owes me... as i've said countless times, we all choose the authorities we listen to and most of those seem to say that if we do nothing we are doomed... i'll stock up on soap, toilet paper, and cigarettes just in case

[kenberg]

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

Lol I have a CFA Charter and we are not accountants...
Chartered Financial Analyst.
I work for TIAA-CREF lol. We have a weird and complicated ownership structure....I bet 99% of the people working there do not understand it. Andrew Carnegie started the company....nonprofit and not for profit is not quite the same thing but it is complicated.

ah ha, some light is breaking through. A relatively small part of my retirement is tied up in TIAA_CREF, but a rgeat deal of my wife's retirement is there. She officially retires this coming June although she has no duties this year (terminal leave they call it, boondoggle is another term). Anyway we have been to two TIAA-CREF meetings where they explain things. We will be going to a third. I'm not quite sure if it's a relief to hear that the folks who work there don't understand it either.

All in all, TIAA-CREF seems to be a good deal. But then some folks said the same thing about adjustable rate mortgages. I didn't.

[mike777]

kenberg, on Sep 26 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

Lol I have a CFA Charter and we are not accountants...
Chartered Financial Analyst.
I work for TIAA-CREF lol. We have a weird and complicated ownership structure....I bet 99% of the people working there do not understand it. Andrew Carnegie started the company....nonprofit and not for profit is not quite the same thing but it is complicated.

ah ha, some light is breaking through. A relatively small part of my retirement is tied up in TIAA_CREF, but a rgeat deal of my wife's retirement is there. She officially retires this coming June although she has no duties this year (terminal leave they call it, boondoggle is another term). Anyway we have been to two TIAA-CREF meetings where they explain things. We will be going to a third. I'm not quite sure if it's a relief to hear that the folks who work there don't understand it either.

All in all, TIAA-CREF seems to be a good deal. But then some folks said the same thing about adjustable rate mortgages. I didn't.

granted you choose variable rate you get a variable rate.

But we do have a super tight fixed rate. Super complicated..but super tight. In fairness it is a pretty fair fixed rate....granted we made it complicated to make it fair at the loss our fixed rate in the short term is not so hot.


We do segreated tranches.....confusing.

[kenberg]

mike777, on Sep 27 2008, 12:23 AM, said:

kenberg, on Sep 26 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

mike777, on Sep 26 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

Lol I have a CFA Charter and we are not accountants...
Chartered Financial Analyst.
I work for TIAA-CREF lol. We have a weird and complicated ownership structure....I bet 99% of the people working there do not understand it. Andrew Carnegie started the company....nonprofit and not for profit is not quite the same thing but it is complicated.

ah ha, some light is breaking through. A relatively small part of my retirement is tied up in TIAA_CREF, but a rgeat deal of my wife's retirement is there. She officially retires this coming June although she has no duties this year (terminal leave they call it, boondoggle is another term). Anyway we have been to two TIAA-CREF meetings where they explain things. We will be going to a third. I'm not quite sure if it's a relief to hear that the folks who work there don't understand it either.

All in all, TIAA-CREF seems to be a good deal. But then some folks said the same thing about adjustable rate mortgages. I didn't.

granted you choose variable rate you get a variable rate.

But we do have a super tight fixed rate. Super complicated..but super tight. In fairness it is a pretty fair fixed rate....granted we made it complicated to make it fair at the loss our fixed rate in the short term is not so hot.


We do segreated tranches.....confusing.

Reminds me of a Harry Belafonte song of long ago: It was clear as mud, but it covered the ground/ and the confusion made my brain go 'round/ so I went and asked a good friend of mine/ known to the world as Albert Einstein

But anyway, the general forum public is not apt to want the details of my famiy's various options and our thoughts on them so I'll drop this side topic.

One thing that is clear about TIAA-CREF and similar enities: If they go broke, it won't matter what it is that they promised to do. If they don't have the money, they cannot do it. This seems to me close to what is at stake in the current financial mess. If I need to pony up some tax dollars as a hedge against this disaster, I'm up for it. I would like to see some asses kicked though.