[Califdude]

Can you give point-count ranges for these conventional bids? Or does the bid depend too much on length of suit ot shape of hand for point-count range to be meaningful? All of these artificial bids appear on the SAYC card without ranges being given. Please discuss.

a. 2C Non-forcing Stayman response to 1NT
b. 2H (trf to spades) response to 1NT
c. 1D-2D Michaels cue bid

Please discuss.

Thanks for your replies.

[Stephen Tu]

For "SAYC" specifically: (keep in mind that "SA" is the generic term for the Standard American family of systems, "SAYC" is a specific variant described by a document published by the ACBL, but that many online players are ignorant of this and think "SAYC" is the generic term, having no idea what the "YC" actually stands for)

a. 2C Non-forcing Stayman response to 1NT
If intending to pass the 2d/2h/2s response: 0-7/8. Typical shape 4-4-5-0, 4-4-4-1
Hoping partner isn't 3325, with the shape the suit contract reached rates to play better than 1nt.

If intending to rebid: good 8+/9+.

b. 2H (trf to spades) response to 1NT

0+ pts. Weak hands with a long suit usually do better in the suit than 1nt, even sans a real 8cd fit, as you are not likely to set up & be able to cash the long cards in that suit. Ruffs also can provide transportation to lead up to the strong hand.

c. 1D-2D Michaels cue bid

Style dependent. Depends on vulnerability also. 8+ perhaps? Some advocate a "split-range" approach, bidding something else on moderate ~12-14ish hands.

It seems you are in need of the following two good books for beginning/int players, both by Bill Root:
Commonsense Bidding
Modern Bridge Conventions (w/ Richard Pavlicek)

The 2nd one is absolutely essential for learning what the range of follow up bids mean. Don't play any gadgets without knowing all of the followups thoroughly!

[han]

stayman: 0-25

Transfer: 0-25

Michaels: depends a bit on the colors, let's say 6 - 32 or something like that.

Nothing to discuss really.

[rbforster]

han, on Sep 25 2008, 11:10 PM, said:

stayman: 0-25
Transfer: 0-25

Only 25? Your partners don't psych 1NT much, huh?

[helene_t]

han, on Sep 26 2008, 05:10 AM, said:

Michaels: depends a bit on the colors, let's say 6 - 32 or something like that.

AKQJx-AKQJx-AK-A. 31. Can't think of a stronger hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Califdude, on Sep 25 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

Can you give point-count ranges for these conventional bids?  Or does the bid depend too much on length of suit ot shape of hand for point-count range to be meaningful?  All of these artificial bids appear on the SAYC card without ranges being given. Please discuss.

a. 2C Non-forcing Stayman response to 1NT
b. 2H (trf to spades) response to 1NT
c. 1D-2D Michaels cue bid

Please discuss.

Thanks for your replies.

No. And the reason, why there are no point ranges is simple:

Those bids are forcing, hence no upper limit needed.
The lower limit is (sometimes) depend on answers / followup,
partnership agreement and personal style, sanity of the players
involved

Actually only for Stayman, the lower limit may be higher than 0,
assuming, you allow e.g. a 2NT answer to the 2C inquiry, because
elsewise you can always pass openers answer, having decided, that
this is the best place to be.

There is one important bidding aspect, which has nothing to do
with the conventions you mentioned: The captains principle.

If you are the captain, the boss, the master and partner is the
servant, slave, than the smutjes (?english) / the servant, the slave
has only to answer question asked by the captain nothing more,
hence he does not need to know, why the question was posed.

And how to identify the captain: The captain is the guy, who can pass.

After a 1NT opening responder is captain.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

Lets assume your NT range is 15-17.

If you play non forcing stayman, it shows 0 to 23 HCPs.- With more, just bid 7 NT.
If you play stayman with at least invitational stength, like in SEF f.e. it shows 8-23 HCps.

Michaels is not really basd on pointcount.

I could bid it on void, T987654,T98765, void, but not on Kx, Qxxxx,AK,KJxxx.

A Michaels should show a serious interesst in playing in one of the suits. So you need to have a very small defence and good suits. A good suit is stable and contains as many intermed. cards like QJT98 as possible.

So xx,QJ975, KQT9x,x is a minimum 2 Spade bid after rho 1 Spade opening to me.
(I know many plays it weaker, but that seems not to work against good opponents for me, but anybody to his own.)