[Hanoi5]

Yesterday I held:

Scoring: IMP

---

My partner opened the bidding with 1♦ and then:

1♦ 1♠
2♠ ???

I bid 3♣, which is a try bid and his answer was 4♠. Would you ask for KC's?

[kenrexford]

Unless your partner is very uncooperative, he cannot bid 4♠ with three Aces or with two Aces and the trump King -- he should cue something with that hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Asking for KC is ok.

It would be great, if you had the agreement,
that 4S is weakest acceptance, 4C the strongest,
..., but without this agreement, KC is ok.

As long as you know, that you have a 9 card trump
fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[TylerE]

Closer to bidding 6 than passing 4. KC feels about right. Wish 4♠ was better defined.

[Hanoi5]

90% sure of a 5-4 spade fit. 3♣ is just a try bid looking for a game, so I know that pd is maximum (or has great help in clubs). Let's say I ask for Key Cards:

1♦ 1♠
2♠ 3♣
4♠ 4NT
5♦ ???

0 or 3 Key Cards, what now?

[Codo]

Lets give pd something like
AKxx,xxx,QJxx,Ax, a good 2 Spade bid that will accept your invitation of 5 Club.
Slam is good. You just need to find the queen if spades.
Give him AQxx,xxx,Axxx,Ax another possible hand and the grand is on a finesse.

Maybe he should cuebid with both of his hands, but maybe he did not.

I think KC now is mandatory.

If he shows zero or 3, there are two possibilities: 1. You simply bid 6 Spade.
2. You bid 5 Spade if you know, that partner will correct any time he has 3 KCs.

[ArtK78]

I can certainly understand why you would use a trial bid of 3♣ on this hand.

But there is a little gadget that many players use that might have helped you out on this and similar hands.

After the auction begins 1m-1M-2M or even 1♥-1♠-2♠, I use 2NT as an ask for trump length and general strength of the hand. The responses:

3♣ - 3 card support, minimum opening.
3♦ - 3 card support, more than a minimum opening.
3♥ - 4 card support, minimum opening.
3♠ - 4 card support, more than a minimum opening.

This might leave you better placed than the actual auction.

[skjaeran]

ArtK78, on Sep 24 2008, 04:13 PM, said:

I can certainly understand why you would use a trial bid of 3♣ on this hand.

But there is a little gadget that many players use that might have helped you out on this and similar hands.

After the auction begins 1m-1M-2M or even 1♥-1♠-2♠, I use 2NT as an ask for trump length and general strength of the hand. The responses:

3♣ - 3 card support, minimum opening.
3♦ - 3 card support, more than a minimum opening.
3♥ - 4 card support, minimum opening.
3♠ - 4 card support, more than a minimum opening.

This might leave you better placed than the actual auction.

I'm used to this response scheme after a 2NT enquiry:

3♣=3-card support unbalanced
3♦=4-card support unbalanced
3♥=3-card support "balanced"
3♠=4-card support "balanced"

After 3m you can ask for the singelton with the relay bid.
Preferrably, you could use 2♠ as the asking bid when hearts have been raised and let 2NT adopt whatever meaning 2♠ normally would have.

[pclayton]

I will abstain on these problems until people start learning that 4S shows a specific type hand with good trump and nothing special to cue.

With that agreement, keycarding is clear.

[kenrexford]

pclayton, on Sep 24 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

I will abstain on these problems until people start learning that 4S shows a specific type hand with good trump and nothing special to cue.

With that agreement, keycarding is clear.

I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the pronouncement of what 4♠ shows. It could show that, but it could also show what I would show, which is different. For my partnerships, you do not jump to game in this sequence, opposite an unlimited partner, unless your answer to RKCB would be worse than "two with the Queen." Hence, Opener cannot, with that agreement, have an answer to RKCB that would be acceptable for slam.

That agreement gets us away from 5, down 1, a LOT.

[matmat]

for me all these threads boil down to the question "do I trust p." The fact that the threads exist merely indicates that the vast majority do not.

i think if i trust p, i pass this. they will not have AKQx or AKxx or AQxx in spades and the club or diamond ace.

if i don't trust p, then i'd rather not be playing.

[P_Marlowe]

matmat, on Sep 24 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

for me all these threads boil down to the question "do I trust p." <snip>

... or which agreement were in place.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

Play 2NT as a relay, see what opener has. (various 3 and 4 card raises, balanced or unbalanced, min or max - it's all possible)