Your bid and follow-ups please - if you don't like the system - please elaborate! This is why I ask!
1NT is semi-NF. 2/1 followed by rebid in same suit by responder is NF.
Also - 1♠-2♥ is dual - it may be natural with hearts or weak (3-7hp) with 3-4c spades. 1M-2M is 3c 8-11hp. Also, a late support in openers major is GF - thus, 1♠-2x-2♠-3♠ is GF.
( A ) Partner opens 1♠ - you hold
♠ Q x
♥ A J x x x
♦ Q J T x x
♣ x
----------
( B ) You open 1♦ - 1♠ response from partner - your bid and follow-up pls.
♠ Q T x
♥ A Q x
♦ A K T x x x
♣ A
----
Motivation for (A) is that I want your opinion whether or not the system needs to be changed.
( B ) is just a funny hand - with options!
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Bid these two wtp?
#1
Posted 2008-September-23, 16:56
"Never increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything." William of Ockham (1285-1349)
#2
Posted 2008-September-23, 17:07
(A) 1NT, a WTP given that 2♥ is game forcing unless followed by 3♥.
(B) 2♥, also WTP.
(B) 2♥, also WTP.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
#3
Posted 2008-September-23, 17:11
655321, on Sep 23 2008, 04:07 PM, said:
(A) 1NT, a WTP given that 2♥ is game forcing unless followed by 3♥.
(
2♥, also WTP.
(
Yes!
#4
Posted 2008-September-23, 17:28
Playing litish openings:
1) 1s=1nt(sf) this hand is not even worth an invite in this style. Now if pard rebids:
2d my hand has gotten better I can rebid 3d showing around 12-13 support points and 5d. or 4 excellent ones.
If pard rebids 2c I can bid 2d BART.
If pard rebids 2s I bid 4s.
2) I open 2nt (20-21).
I will not superaccept in major if pard transfers.
1) 1s=1nt(sf) this hand is not even worth an invite in this style. Now if pard rebids:
2d my hand has gotten better I can rebid 3d showing around 12-13 support points and 5d. or 4 excellent ones.
If pard rebids 2c I can bid 2d BART.
If pard rebids 2s I bid 4s.
2) I open 2nt (20-21).
I will not superaccept in major if pard transfers.
#5
Posted 2008-September-24, 15:42
Hi,
#A 1NT, wtp.
Just because I can check out in 3H does not mean
I can bid 2H, 3H should show 6.
#B 2H, if partner raises, we have a spade fit, but not a
wtp for me.
Let partner respond 1H and it becomes harder,
most likely I would go with 3D, downgrading the hand
because of the single Ace.
With kind regards
Marlowe
#A 1NT, wtp.
Just because I can check out in 3H does not mean
I can bid 2H, 3H should show 6.
#B 2H, if partner raises, we have a spade fit, but not a
wtp for me.
Let partner respond 1H and it becomes harder,
most likely I would go with 3D, downgrading the hand
because of the single Ace.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#6
Posted 2008-September-24, 16:03
Sign me up for WTP as well, and I have no problem with the system.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#7
Posted 2008-September-24, 17:05
The first hand is actually a sticky one for most systems. Even playing methods where there are fewer forcing sequences after a 2/1 bid, you will often see the auction 1♠-2♥-2♠, after which:
(1) If 2♠ is NF (as in Acol and some older versions of standard american) then you can pass. But you could easily have a huge diamond fit on a hand where opener is not strong enough to reverse, or be making 4♠ when opener has a minimum with extra spade length.
(2) If 2♠ is forcing one round (or if it's NF but you decide to bid) then typically rebidding 3♦ is forcing. So you could easily end up pushing to a silly 3NT when opener has a minimum with spades and clubs. Alternately you could rebid 2NT over 2♠ but this is hardly a good description of the 5-5 hand with singleton in an unbid suit.
This hand is one where playing a truly forcing 1NT response may help you -- you can force game if opener rebids a red suit, or raise a 2♠ rebid to three, or use some kind of BART to show this hand over a 2♣ call.
This is the price you pay for playing a non-forcing (or semi-forcing) 1NT response. You gain when you get to play in 1NT holding a balanced hand opposite a balanced opener, and you also gain on some hands where opener rebids 2m and you know it's a real suit (or extras if semi-forcing) rather than potentially being a 3-carder in a minimum balanced hand. But you lose when you have a very shapely responder hand like this one.
(1) If 2♠ is NF (as in Acol and some older versions of standard american) then you can pass. But you could easily have a huge diamond fit on a hand where opener is not strong enough to reverse, or be making 4♠ when opener has a minimum with extra spade length.
(2) If 2♠ is forcing one round (or if it's NF but you decide to bid) then typically rebidding 3♦ is forcing. So you could easily end up pushing to a silly 3NT when opener has a minimum with spades and clubs. Alternately you could rebid 2NT over 2♠ but this is hardly a good description of the 5-5 hand with singleton in an unbid suit.
This hand is one where playing a truly forcing 1NT response may help you -- you can force game if opener rebids a red suit, or raise a 2♠ rebid to three, or use some kind of BART to show this hand over a 2♣ call.
This is the price you pay for playing a non-forcing (or semi-forcing) 1NT response. You gain when you get to play in 1NT holding a balanced hand opposite a balanced opener, and you also gain on some hands where opener rebids 2m and you know it's a real suit (or extras if semi-forcing) rather than potentially being a 3-carder in a minimum balanced hand. But you lose when you have a very shapely responder hand like this one.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#8
Posted 2008-September-24, 17:50
It seems a bit soon to call this hand a loss when playing semi-forcing 1NT responses. Bart would of course be really nice on this hand if partner bids 2C as expected.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#9
Posted 2008-September-25, 01:38
awm, on Sep 25 2008, 01:05 AM, said:
This is the price you pay for playing a non-forcing (or semi-forcing) 1NT response. You gain when you get to play in 1NT holding a balanced hand opposite a balanced opener, and you also gain on some hands where opener rebids 2m and you know it's a real suit (or extras if semi-forcing) rather than potentially being a 3-carder in a minimum balanced hand. But you lose when you have a very shapely responder hand like this one.
And what method do you think pays the highest price? (I know it's a tough question, and the answer will depend on scoring (MP/BAM/IMP).)
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
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