[matmat]

I was kibbing a tournament, and at the very start the TD listed rules for the tournament.

this was #2:

Quote

  2. BBO rules are valid for the tournament. No psychic and ALERT the artificial bids pls.

I am probably reading this wrong, but does that imply that the TD believes psyching is banned under BBO rules?

[jtfanclub]

BBO rules allow you to ban psychics. ACBL/EBU/WBF rules don't.

I assume that's what they meant.

[blackshoe]

The laws of the game don't allow banning psychics. Ban psychics if you wish, but know that when you do so, what you're playing is not according to the laws.

[jillybean]

Quote

   2. BBO rules are valid for the tournament. No psychic and ALERT the artificial bids pls.

Seeing this makes me choke too.

For obvious reasons; when it comes to running games BBO has no rules apart from "be nice and dont cheat".
I don’t necessarily agree, but that’s how it is. Perhaps we could have a list for ‘bridge tournaments’ and ‘other games’

[jtfanclub]

blackshoe, on Jul 22 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

The laws of the game don't allow banning psychics. Ban psychics if you wish, but know that when you do so, what you're playing is not according to the laws.

Please don't get me started on my usual rant about the WBF decides what WBF games are, they aren't the Bridge Gods except in their tiny little minds.

Maybe we should have WBF games in contrast to bridge games.

[jillybean]

jtfanclub, on Jul 22 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

blackshoe, on Jul 22 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

The laws of the game don't allow banning psychics. Ban psychics if you wish, but know that when you do so, what you're playing is not according to the laws.

Please don't get me started on my usual rant about the WBF decides what WBF games are, they aren't the Bridge Gods except in their tiny little minds.

Maybe we should have WBF games in contrast to bridge games.

If you don't like the WBF, theres more;

Laws of Duplicate Contract Bridge American Edition As Promulgated in the Western Hemisphere by the AMERICAN CONTRACT BRIDGE LEAGUE Effective May 27, on 1997 Published and distributed by the American Contract Bridge League, said:

LAW 40 - PARTNERSHIP UNDERSTANDINGS
A. Right to Choose Call or Play
A player may make any call or play (including an intentionally misleading call
— such as a psychic bid — or a call or play that departs from commonly
accepted, or previously announced, use of a convention), without prior
announcement, provided that such call or play is not based on a partnership
understanding.

EBU ORANGE BOOK said:

6 PSYCHIC BIDDING
6 A General
6 A 1 A Psyche or Psychic bid is a deliberate and gross mis-statement of honour strength and/or suit length. A Misbid is an inadvertent mis-statement of honour strength and/or suit length. A Deviation is a deliberate but minor mis-statement of honour strength and/or suit length.
6 A 2 A psychic bid is a legitimate ploy as long as it contains the same element of surprise for the psycher’s partner as it does for the opponents. .

I wont mention the rules on disclosure.

[matmat]

jillybean2, on Jul 22 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

I wont mention the rules on disclosure.

It is stunning to me, how lucid and concise the laws are.

[brianshark]

Perhaps the TD meant that "BBO rules apply to this tournement... and in addition, no psych bids are allowed"? Whatever BBO rules are. I admit I don't know myself.

[jtfanclub]

jillybean2, on Jul 22 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

If you don't like the WBF, theres more;

The ACBL rules are a subset of the WBF rules.

The ACBL and WBF can decide whatever they want: who cares? If it's not an ACBL/WBF game, they have no authority.

This person declared BBO rules, which should be in contrast to ACBL/WBF rules.

[helene_t]

My guess is that the TD has no clue what "BBO rules" means. Just some buzz word he made up to sound like an authority.

[matmat]

helene_t, on Jul 23 2008, 09:02 AM, said:

My guess is that the TD has no clue what "BBO rules" means. Just some buzz word he made up to sound like an authority.

This does appear to be fairly common

[nige1]

If a legislatures wants an effective ban any kind of psych, it employs the Endicott Fudge: It doesn't ban the psychic call itself. That would be illegal It just uses its legitimate powers to refuse to license any conventional call thereafter

Notwithstanding, I think it is quite reasonable to ban psychs in low-level on-line competition because

• Beginners are confused enough already.
  
• On-line rules dictate that you tell opponents the meaning of your own calls. If you psych you should simply explain your partnership agreement. That is all that opponents are entitled to know. In practice, however, naive opponents can get a bit stroppy when they realise that your hand bears no resemblance to your explanation.

[jillybean]

Beginners benefit from education rather than keeping them shielded from the game.

[blackshoe]

To the best of my knowledge, the "Endicott Fudge" has not been used to effectively ban psyches, but rather to ban non-psyches of which the Regulating Authority does not approve. With the 2007 laws, they don't need to do that anymore.

The EBU's "fielded psych/fielded misbid" regulations may be a different kettle of fish.

Jilly's last post is absolutely correct.

[nige1]

blackshoe, on Jul 30 2008, 11:08 PM, said:

To the best of my knowledge, the "Endicott Fudge" has not been used to effectively ban psyches, but rather to ban non-psyches of which the Regulating Authority does not approve. With the 2007 laws, they don't need to do that anymore.
The EBU's "fielded psych/fielded misbid" regulations may be a different kettle of fish.
Jilly's last post is absolutely correct.

Now I'm confused. I'm afraid that that blackshoe is right and I'm wrong: the Endicott Fudge is used to outlaw conventions of which authorities disaprove.
For example, if people wanted to open "rule of 17" hands, then the EBU would not let them use any conventions thereafter. But how did the EBU manage to stop us psyching a Multi 2♦ opener?

[blackshoe]

Quote

But how did the EBU manage to stop us psyching a Multi 2♦ opener?

Ah. Here's the thing. The 1997 Law 40D says, in part,

Quote

The sponsoring organization may regulate the use of bidding or play conventions.

The WBFLC has told us that this right is untrammeled - that is, the SO can regulate any convention in any way they see fit. Including disallowing psyching of the bid.

2007 Law 40B2(d) is explicit on this point. It says

Quote

The Regulating Authority may restrict the use of psychic artificial calls.

[kenberg]

No doubt the laws should be followed, whatever they are and however the various regulating organizations sort out their domains of authority. As long as they let me know the upshot of it all, I'm fine.

I can see some reasons however for some regulation of psychs at informal games. First a recent example of what can happen when psychs are really not a matter of partnership agreement: LHO opens 1S and as a result I play 3NT instead of the 4S contract reached by everyone else. RHO is unaware of the psych, at least in the beginning, and does not defend optimally. The top on this board gives me a first place.

Here is another example (sort of) from long ago. I open a club and the auction is 3S by the opponents when it gets back to me. I bid 4D. Partner (who I have never played with before (or since)) passes, explaining later that he thought I was psyching the club and now showing my real suit.

These are examples of partner really not being in on the psych (or non-psych).

But: With a partner some years back I told him that he either had to stop screwing around with the spade suit when the auction begins with two passes or I have to start alerting it, preferably the former. He agreed.


Just like directors are often not that familiar with the rules, players in casual games are often not that familiar (and sometimes they work hard at staying unfamiliar) with ethics. They become fully aware of which bids by their partners may be psychic and which will not. In a game with substance, this will be uncovered over time. In a casual game, it may not.

So if the laws allow the banning of psychs, I don't see it as a horrible misuse of power to do so in casual games (as most online games are).

[blackshoe]

Kenberg said:

So if the laws allow the banning of psychs, I don't see it as a horrible misuse of power to do so in casual games (as most online games are).

Maybe so, but the fact is the Laws don't allow it. Not for psychs of natural calls, anyway.

[matmat]

was kibbing a tournament today, and here is what I saw:

Quote

PSYCHES not alowed 1st/2nd
  seats. Others allowed but if made without ptn agreement.
  Poker bids will be PUNISHED, and board adjusted.
  We are playing in a serious bridge club, not in a casino.

I guess that's one way to have your cake and eat it too?

[jillybean]

matmat, on Aug 25 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

was kibbing a tournament today, and here is what I saw:

Quote

PSYCHES not alowed 1st/2nd
   seats. Others allowed but if made without ptn agreement.
   Poker bids will be PUNISHED, and board adjusted.
   We are playing in a serious bridge club, not in a casino.

I guess that's one way to have your cake and eat it too?

Oh hell. Some of my bids dont even resemble poker, whats the punishment?