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limited hand with spades

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 08:36

Partner opens 1♠, 10-15 with a 5 card suit. It's V/V MP's. The follow-ups are standard 2/1 stuff. He can jump over 1NT with a good 5-5 or thereabouts.

xx
xxxxx
Qxxx
Ax


Is this decision close?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#2 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 08:43

1NT.

And the decision is not close.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 15:19

Minimum, but clear cut. 1NT , and pass his red suit rebid, or 2♠ over 2♣.
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 18:58

Looks like a normal pass opposite a limited opener. 1N might improve the contract and it might not.
"Phil" on BBO
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 19:02

Completely obvious to respond.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 19:07

I don't believe in pass here.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 User is offline   SlickRicky 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 19:23

Hi,

I prefer passing this only because of the vulnerability and form of scoring. I think bidding risks getting too high and going -200 on a partscore hand.

Ricky
Jumping under stars inspires nobody
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#8 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 21:11

gwnn, on Sep 21 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

Is this decision close?

Whatever you do, it's not a close decision, it's a matter of belief. Even if you aren't convinced either way, you have to pick a belief when forming a limited system partnership :)
I believe in 1N.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#9 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 21:17

I would pass, but I am a chicken and am aware of this.
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#10 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-September-21, 23:12

Meh. I'll bid.
Kevin Fay
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 06:04

Pass is safer and may be theoretically better, but in practice it just doesn't work. I bid 1NT.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 11:54

I tried 1NT and then corrected 2♣ to 2♠, play was straightforward for -200.

I spent the next 5 minutes trying to defend my choice in front of my fellow three players at the table. They didn't understand why I didn't pass without the required 8 points or a fit. Partner argued that I could have pulled 2♣ to 2♥ since that implies spade tolerance (playing WJS) - of course we also missed a 5-3 fit.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 12:01

If your partnership requires 8 points or a fit for a response than this is an obvious pass.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#14 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 12:09

They contended that in precision you need to have 8 points or a fit as a responder to make a bid. It seems to me, however, that the question "is it a good idea to respond to 1♠ with this hand if 1♠ can be at most 15?" definitely makes sense even without extended discussion of the detailed agreements of this particular pair. Surely most criteria (such as improving the partscore, making it harder for opps/getting too high etc) hold and are therefore apt for comparison. Of course we did not have the agreement that 1NT promises 8 points.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#15 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 12:44

I'd be worried about missing 4H if I passed, but it is also possible that we get to a better partscore or make it harder for the opponents (if partner rebids 2D or 2H then it might be both). I think it is clear that both vulnerable is least attractive for bidding, at neither vulnerable we wouldn't even be talking about this. I hope.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#16 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 13:42

gwnn, on Sep 22 2008, 12:54 PM, said:

I tried 1NT and then corrected 2♣ to 2♠, play was straightforward for -200.

I spent the next 5 minutes trying to defend my choice in front of my fellow three players at the table. They didn't understand why I didn't pass without the required 8 points or a fit. Partner argued that I could have pulled 2♣ to 2♥ since that implies spade tolerance (playing WJS) - of course we also missed a 5-3 fit.

Playing BART may help :)


1s=1nt=2c now you can play BART. :)

It does not solve all issues but it can help. :)
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#17 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 14:51

gwnn, on Sep 22 2008, 10:54 AM, said:

Partner argued that I could have pulled 2♣ to 2♥ since that implies spade tolerance (playing WJS) - of course we also missed a 5-3 fit.

lol
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#18 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 16:54

To my mind you either play that a response shows 8 or thereabouts with fit - or you respond with a bit less in the belief that you'll better the part score, make it difficult for opps etc on the understanding that this will sometimes cause a -200 and also perhaps make responder's hand a little less well defined on some constructive sequences. But the partnership should pick one (or conceivably one vul and one not vul).

Personally I'd go with the latter at MPs - but it is matter of agreement first and foremost.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#19 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-September-22, 17:11

I'd pass.
Michael Askgaard
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