[myfish]

hi,first time to post here

i still have many question

in sayc,is there any different between 1S-2D-2S and 1S-2C-2S?

also,in 2/1,does 1S-2D-2S show exactly 6 card !S?

[bearmum]

myfish, on Apr 8 2004, 03:57 PM, said:

hi,first time to post here

i still have many question

in sayc,is there any different between 1S-2D-2S and 1S-2C-2S?

also,in 2/1,does 1S-2D-2S show exactly 6 card !S?

the way I play SAYC and 2/1

Q1 NO


Q2 YES

[keylime]

bearmum, on Apr 8 2004, 11:53 AM, said:

myfish, on Apr 8 2004, 03:57 PM, said:

hi,first time to post here

i still have many question

in sayc,is there any different between 1S-2D-2S and 1S-2C-2S?

also,in 2/1,does 1S-2D-2S show exactly 6 card !S?

the way I play SAYC and 2/1

Q1 NO


Q2 YES

Answer: MAYBE for question one. Some players play 1S-2C and 1S-2D differently. 2C being a generic force with 2D promising 4 diamonds at a minimum. I personally used to use 2C as a generic GF with as short as TWO clubs IF lacking 4 diamonds.

For number two, depends on what form of 2/1. I use promising five only to solve the 2NT trap that 2/1'ers fall into. Trying to promise six here gets 5-3-3-2 hands into a bind.

[paulg]

myfish, on Apr 8 2004, 02:57 AM, said:

also,in 2/1,does 1S-2D-2S show exactly 6 card ♠?

One of the problems of 2/1 is an auction where both partners are unlimited. Most agree that you need a bid after 1♠-2♦ that shows you have a minimum opener, so partnerships have to agree whether this bid is either 2♠ or 2NT.

So the former only promise 5 spades for 2♠, and the latter promise 6 spades for 2♠.

I belong to the first camp so that I can keep my 2NT bids balanced, at the cost of not promising the sixth spade.

Paul

[Flame]

1M - 2c- 2M will have 6 card suit or 5 card and 4OM
1M - 2d -2M can also be 5M and 4C
so its not exactly the same and after the 2c you are more sure of p having a 6 card suit.

[inquiry]

Welcome, myfish. Hope you post here more often. :-)

Since the question is about SAYC, maybe you should check the SAYC Booklet found on the ACBL webpage (adobe PDF document), the link is....

sayc_booklet.pdf

There they describe the 2♠ rebid as one of a group of minimum hands (13-16hcp). In the booklet, they don't assign a number of ♠'s so this would be a partnership agreement.

Ben

[Free]

Yes there is a difference:
After 1♠-2♦-? what do you bid with AKJxx-x-xxx-KQxx? 2♠, so this can be from a 5 card. Similar thing can happen after 1♠-2♥-? This is, because a 3m rebid would show extra strength which we don't have...
After 1♠-2♣-? you don't get this problem, because with any 5-4 distribution you can show it by bidding 2♦ or 2♥, or supporting partner to 3♣. So 1♠-2♣-2♠ always shows a 6+ card ♠.

In 2/1, this is standard minimum with a 5 card ♠, since you can stay low and don't have to describe your hand immediatly. Strength is more important in that case apparently (I didn't invent the system )

Quote from Flame: "1M - 2c- 2M will have 6 card suit or 5 card and 4OM"

This is only possible when you have 5♥ and 4♠, since with 5♠ and 4♥ you'll rebid 2♥ ofcourse. Here again, showing your 4 card ♠ would be a reverse, which again shows extra strength.