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Where did we go wrong? Slam bidding

Poll: Which was the worst call? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Which was the worst call?

  1. 1D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2C (2 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  3. 2D (7 votes [15.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.22%

  4. 3C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 3S (5 votes [10.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.87%

  6. 4C (4 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  7. 6C (27 votes [58.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.70%

  8. Final Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Just unlucky (1 votes [2.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.17%

  10. Bad choice of system (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2008-September-10, 23:23

Here's a hand where we didn't reach a very good spot. We were playing 2/1 GF. Our auction:

1♦ - 2♣ (GF)
2♦ (5+) - 3♣
3♠ - 4♣
6♣ - Pass

Scoring: IMP

Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
0

#2 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-September-10, 23:46

A 7-4 with a void opposite partner's 8 card suit is not easy to bid.

But even with that caveat I really dislike South's bidding.

South has a very strong hand with 7 diamonds and 4 spades. But he suppressed his spades and his strength in order unilaterally place the contract after a couple of bids from partner. And, unilaterally placed the contract in his void.

Looking at both hands (I admit this might influence me), one plausible auction might be:

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♣
3♦ 4♣
4♦ 5♦
6♦
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#3 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 00:03

Opener should bid 4♦ over 4♣. 6♣ is simply too unilateral with the void.
Ming

--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
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#4 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 00:56

Bidding was fine until 3S. I agree with South's 2D, the first priority in 2/1 where 2C is 100% GF is for opener to show if he holds 5+ diamonds. 3C was fine. 3S was fine. Over 3S responder could bid 4S and opener should know it is only three cards and obvious dislike of NT. Difficult hand but the 6C bid was badly judged.
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 02:06

655321, on Sep 11 2008, 05:46 AM, said:

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♣
3♦ 4♣
4♦ 5♦
6♦

I might have not reproduced this auction, but it seems good to me. (Perhaps I'd have tried 3NT instead of 4♣)

The actual auction seems:

- Bad choice of system. A system that forces you to bid a min 2362 in the same way as this 74 monster cannot convince me.

- Bad strategy. Hiding spades seems bad when you can make 7♠ opposite a min 2♣ GF such as:

Qxxx
Ax
xx
AQxxx
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#6 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 02:58

Hi,

I think the bidding was ok upto 3S, you may
or may not bid 2S instead of 2D, 2S should
also promise 5+ D, but would show also 4+S,
but repeating your 7 card suit cant be wrong.
Now the 3S bid just showes a stopper, i.e. may
just be a 3 card suit.

As it is, I dont like 4C, I would assume, that 3C
did not limit responders hand, in which case 4C
is certainly a forward going bid, and this cant be
right, ... at some point in time, someone should
say, I have a min. hand for my bidding.
I prefer 5C instead of 4C, and opener will pass 5C.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#7 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 07:12

6♣ is a poor choice when we haven't yet really shown our good ♦ suit.
Michael Askgaard
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 07:29

Swans are one-suiters so South should somehow have emphasized his diamonds more. My choice would be a 3♦ rebid instead of 2♦.

For his bidding he might as well have been 4252.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#9 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 08:07

Bidding club 3 times show much better clubs than KJ8x.xxxx

Im repeating myself but 5Nt as P-A-S is IMO a mandatory tool. Its a bid that is at least 5 times more frequent than Josephine.

Since 2D show a 5 card suit then south can affort to rebid 3D to show 6 or 7 D after its tough not to reach 6D.

Quote

- Bad strategy. Hiding spades seems bad when you can make 7♠ opposite a min 2♣ GF such as:
Opener doesnt need to show his spades, responder will bid them if hes got 4 of them.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#10 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 08:18

benlessard, on Sep 11 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

Bidding club 3 times show much better clubs than KJ8xxxxx

I would have thought that if they were good enough to be trumps at the six-level opposite a void, responder would have bid 4C at his second turn. Surely there are hands where responder would want to bid his clubs three times on KJ-8th.

I agree with Helene, opener should bid 3D at his second turn. But, I expect some would consider that to show a solid suit.
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#11 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 09:06

Good problem.

What did 4C mean there vs 1D 2C : 2D 4C or 1D 2C : 2D 3C : 3S 5C?

Why not 4D over 4C? Even if 4C showed a suit that can play for 1 loser opposite a void, don't you want to confirm that pard has the HA?
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#12 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 09:38

As I read the auction, I found myself agreeing with every call. Until 6♣.

Over 4♣, 4♦ is obvious.
"Phil" on BBO
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#13 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 09:43

6♣ was nuts. There were other questionable choices earlier but that is more a matter of style than what really led to the problem. It's not only that partner didn't bid 2♣ 4♣, but also if south bids 5NT instead does he really think partner won't select clubs when they are best?

Your opponent did well not to double with AQT9 of clubs (I was watching).
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#14 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 10:05

I didn't like 3♠. After

1♦-2♣
2♦-?

responder has shown a GF with long clubs. If he had a 4 card major (or even a major stopper), isn't he usually bidding it over 2♦? So when he bids 3♣ instead it sure sounds like 1-suited clubs to me.

This inference leads me to think that 3♠ was a wasted call by South, who probably should have emphasized his diamonds anyway but certainly should have if North denied interest in playing in a major. South does have both major stops so 3N isnt awful but with such nice diamonds I think 3♦ is much better.
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#15 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 11:23

6♣ was the worst bid by a mile. Responder didn't know opener had 7 diamonds!
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 11:57

Agree with everybody, 6C was very strange.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#17 User is offline   tomcat777 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 11:59

2♦ wasn't a good bid, with 17 hp and 7 cards ♦ he made a bid like he have 12 hp and 5 cards ♦. Better 3 ♦, this bid looks like an invitation to slam with a good 6 cards ♦ suit, in my opinion.
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#18 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 12:01

tomcat777, on Sep 11 2008, 09:59 AM, said:

2♦ wasn't a good bid, with 17 hp and 7 cards ♦ he made a bid like he have 12 hp and 5 cards ♦. Better 3 ♦, this bid looks like an invitation to slam with a good 6 cards ♦ suit, in my opinion.

Many play this as solid or at least semi-solid diamonds in a 2/1 sequence.

welcome to the forums by the way :rolleyes:
"Phil" on BBO
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#19 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 12:57

A tad surprised N didn't bid 7♣ over 6♣ :rolleyes:
Kevin Fay
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#20 User is offline   Flameous 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 13:05

There are many things in this auction that should happen differently I think.

After 2♦ I think north should jump to 4♣ to show a suit like this. Now that he doesn't, south has no need to bring those spades on the table as he has semisolid diamonds, so 3♦ instead of 3♠ should be obvious. Now again I think north did a poor choice in 4♣ since now atleast it seems like slam going hand with AKJxxxxx of clubs at the very least. Jump to 5 would still have been better. I don't criticise 6♣ so much since if p really has what I at this point think he should, it seems good enough slam to bid and I doubt I can find out about things I'd need to know to make better choices. I'd still give it a try with 4♦ though.

1♦ - 2♣
2♦ - 4♣
4♦ - 4♥
4♠ - 5♦
6♦

I think the auction should look more like this.
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