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1♥-1♠ - 2♠ - 4♥
What is 4♥?
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What is 4H?
#1
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Posted 2008-September-08, 16:49
"Phil" on BBO
#2
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Posted 2008-September-08, 16:52
Oh I misread the auction as contested.
This is choice of games for me.
This is choice of games for me.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#3
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Posted 2008-September-08, 16:55
Is this a contested or uncontested auction?
I'm going to assume uncontested auction, since Choice of Games makes no sense whatsever in a contested auction.
I would take it as shortness in the uncontested auction, given that I would take 3♥ as forcing (on multiple premises: we don't try to improve the part-score at the sake of our game and slam bidding AND by the fact that we didn't raise hearts initially).
I'm going to assume uncontested auction, since Choice of Games makes no sense whatsever in a contested auction.
I would take it as shortness in the uncontested auction, given that I would take 3♥ as forcing (on multiple premises: we don't try to improve the part-score at the sake of our game and slam bidding AND by the fact that we didn't raise hearts initially).
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#4
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:20
I agree with shortness.
If I have a GF with four spades and three hearts, I'll bid 2♣ or 2♦ as GF, prepared to raise spades if Opener bids them. In fact, I would do the same with 5♠/3♥, personally. So, I cannot have a hand with GF values, 4+ spades, and a heart fit. The only other likely meaning is shortness.
If I have a GF with four spades and three hearts, I'll bid 2♣ or 2♦ as GF, prepared to raise spades if Opener bids them. In fact, I would do the same with 5♠/3♥, personally. So, I cannot have a hand with GF values, 4+ spades, and a heart fit. The only other likely meaning is shortness.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
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#5
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:25
Is this in theory, or at the table? In theory I guess you can argue shortness although I'm not sure you would want to. In practice, if your partner does this at the table, undiscussed, and he is not named Ken Rexford, you would be NUTS (repeat) NUTS to assume he had shortness. And you would be equally as nuts to actually make that bid with shortness!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#6
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:30
jdonn, on Sep 8 2008, 06:25 PM, said:
Is this in theory, or at the table? In theory I guess you can argue shortness although I'm not sure you would want to. In practice, if your partner does this at the table, undiscussed, and he is not named Ken Rexford, you would be NUTS (repeat) NUTS to assume he had shortness. And you would be equally as nuts to actually make that bid with shortness!
agreed
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#7
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:41
Uncontested auction.
Casual game, so no significant preparation.
I find it curious that so many would interpret a bid like 1♦-1♠-2♠-4♦ dramatically different. Or that 1♠-4♥ is looked at any differently than 1♠-4♦.
I know I'm baiting here. Sorry.
Casual game, so no significant preparation.
I find it curious that so many would interpret a bid like 1♦-1♠-2♠-4♦ dramatically different. Or that 1♠-4♥ is looked at any differently than 1♠-4♦.
I know I'm baiting here. Sorry.
"Phil" on BBO
#8
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:45
One is game Phil, the other isn't. A jump to 4M is often to play while a jump to 4m is often a splinter.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#9
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:46
jdonn, on Sep 8 2008, 03:25 PM, said:
Is this in theory, or at the table? In theory I guess you can argue shortness although I'm not sure you would want to. In practice, if your partner does this at the table, undiscussed, and he is not named Ken Rexford, you would be NUTS (repeat) NUTS to assume he had shortness. And you would be equally as nuts to actually make that bid with shortness!
Agree with the sentiment. It would certainly be a bid I would not want to make at the table undiscussed, but isn't this forum often about having these discussions?
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#10
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Posted 2008-September-08, 17:54
jdonn, on Sep 8 2008, 06:25 PM, said:
Is this in theory, or at the table? In theory I guess you can argue shortness although I'm not sure you would want to. In practice, if your partner does this at the table, undiscussed, and he is not named Ken Rexford, you would be NUTS (repeat) NUTS to assume he had shortness. And you would be equally as nuts to actually make that bid with shortness!
Well, one would also be NUTS (repeat) NUTS to whip out a 3♣ response to a 1NT opening as Puppet Stayman undiscussed, or to whip out RKCB undiscussed, or even to whip out Stayman undiscussed.
That said, discussion makes sense in all sequences.
This one is as much a no-brainer for any of my partnerships as is 1♠-P-4♥. Sure, 1♠-P-4♥ could be natural, but none of my partnerships would expect that. Similarly, none would expect having this proposed auction with anything but short hearts.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#11
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Posted 2008-September-09, 12:11
4♥ shows a void for me.
I'd not try it unless I was confident partner would take it as that. That is, it didn't have to be explicitly agreed (or discussed), but an obvious interference from other agreements we have.
I'd not try it unless I was confident partner would take it as that. That is, it didn't have to be explicitly agreed (or discussed), but an obvious interference from other agreements we have.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
#12
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Posted 2008-September-09, 12:15
han, on Sep 8 2008, 03:45 PM, said:
One is game Phil, the other isn't. A jump to 4M is often to play while a jump to 4m is often a splinter.
Sure.
But take a sequence like 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♠ - 4♦. Woudn't it be possible that some (good) players make take this as a slam suggestion in opener's 1st bid suit, instead of a splinter?
"Phil" on BBO
#13
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Posted 2008-September-09, 12:37
I honestly don't care what some players might take it as.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
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