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Fun 3N

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-04, 14:41

Here's one to bend your noodle a little:

Scoring: IMP

RHO (East) Opens 2S and you overcall 2N. pard staymans and you end up in 3N. LHO leads the club 4, J, 7, 5


You win the club lead in dummy and try two hearts, RHO showing out on the 2nd.

Onward.
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#2 User is offline   andrei 

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Posted 2008-September-04, 15:04

did LHO started with:

♠A
♥xxxxx
♦xx
♣AQxxx

?

play 4 rounds of ♥, 2 rounds of ♦ and exit with ♠.

In the end we will score 4♥ + 3♦ + 2♣
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#3 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-04, 16:37

andrei, on Sep 4 2008, 04:04 PM, said:

did LHO started with:

♠A
♥xxxxx
♦xx
♣AQxxx

?

play 4 rounds of ♥, 2 rounds of ♦ and exit with ♠.

In the end we will score 4♥ + 3♦ + 2♣

That line also works if LHO has ♠K ♥xxxx ♦xx ♣AQxxxx. If RHO ducks the spade, LHO is endplayed. If RHO rises, he crashes partner's King and has no other club to lead.
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-04, 17:23

kenrexford, on Sep 4 2008, 02:37 PM, said:

andrei, on Sep 4 2008, 04:04 PM, said:

did LHO started with:

♠A
♥xxxxx
♦xx
♣AQxxx

?

play 4 rounds of ♥, 2 rounds of ♦ and exit with ♠.

In the end we will score 4♥ + 3♦ + 2♣

That line also works if LHO has ♠K ♥xxxx ♦xx ♣AQxxxx. If RHO ducks the spade, LHO is endplayed. If RHO rises, he crashes partner's King and has no other club to lead.

LHO didn't start with ♥xxxx unless RHO reneged.
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#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-04, 21:35

Hey! I didn't see that last part earlier.

OK, it works if K-xxxxx-x-AQxxxx.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#6 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-06, 13:43

wd all :(
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#7 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 09:02

andrei, on Sep 4 2008, 01:04 PM, said:

did LHO started with:

♠A
♥xxxxx
♦xx
♣AQxxx

?

play 4 rounds of ♥, 2 rounds of ♦ and exit with ♠.

In the end we will score 4♥ + 3♦ + 2♣

I think you have the right idea. I was hoping someone would elaborate on why cashing the 2nd diamond is important, but it is to get a count and see if LHO is 1=5=2=5 or 1=5=1=6.
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#8 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 11:44

Why aren't we cashing a 3rd diamond? Can't LHO be x xxxxx xxx AQxx?
Knowing opponent's methods at trick one would help.

Would LHO be able to find pitching his SA on the diamonds? If so, cashing the third diamond would lose if he is 1525, but I think that is less likely than him having a hand with 3 diamonds.
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#9 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 11:50

cherdano, on Sep 8 2008, 09:44 AM, said:

Why aren't we cashing a 3rd diamond? Can't LHO be x xxxxx xxx AQxx?
Knowing opponent's methods at trick one would help.

Would LHO be able to find pitching his SA on the diamonds? If so, cashing the third diamond would lose if he is 1525, but I think that is less likely than him having a hand with 3 diamonds.

I considered this hand, but I don't think anyone ever leads a club from that collection.

Furthermore, I don't think the jettison is that hard to find. West can count 4 hearts, 3 diamonds and a club. If we have the ♠K, he's never beating the hand.
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#10 User is offline   sathyab 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 11:55

cherdano, on Sep 8 2008, 12:44 PM, said:

Why aren't we cashing a 3rd diamond? Can't LHO be x xxxxx xxx AQxx?
Knowing opponent's methods at trick one would help.

Would LHO be able to find pitching his SA on the diamonds? If so, cashing the third diamond would lose if he is 1525, but I think that is less likely than him having a hand with 3 diamonds.

Assuming standard signals, the ♣7 is likely to be from two little or stiff, not from three small. So West has led from a five or six bagger in clubs. I am not sure that he needs to have a spade honor. Looking at a stiff spade in your, you could easily choose to lead your own suit instead. But playing him for a stiff spade honor may be the best chance to make the contract though.
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#11 User is offline   andrei 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 11:58

if LHO is 1-5-1-6 we are cold no matter what, either LHO or RHO will be endplayed to give us the 9th trick.

if LHO is 1-5-2-5 we must play 2 diamonds and hope LHO has AS, if we play a third one it might be easy for him to ditch the A of spades.

if LHO is 1-5-3-4 playing 2 rounds of D and exiting a spade will not hurt if his singleton spade is A or K, we will still make it ...
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#12 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 12:05

Why are you assuming standard signals?

Anyway, the problem of course is that the hands with a singleton ace are a priori a lot less likely than hands with any other spade singleton. So even if only 25% would lead a club from x xxxxx xxx AQxx, this hand still has to be a favorite (1534 is also a bit more likely than 1525). And I don't think the club lead is that unreasonable after LHO has implied hearts.
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#13 User is offline   sathyab 

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Posted 2008-September-08, 12:41

cherdano, on Sep 8 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

Why are you assuming standard signals?

Anyway, the problem of course is that the hands with a singleton ace are a priori a lot less likely than hands with any other spade singleton. So even if only 25% would lead a club from x xxxxx xxx AQxx, this hand still has to be a favorite (1534 is also a bit more likely than 1525). And I don't think the club lead is that unreasonable after LHO has implied hearts.

The problem statement didn't indicate otherwise, so I assumed signalling was "standard". But may be you're supposed to arrive at a possible lay-out for the contract through other means, such as whether he's more likely to lead his own suit from AQxx or AQxxx. A club lead from AQxxx has a lot more potential than from a holding of AQxx.
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