[ArtK78]

Scoring: MP

(1♠) - 2♦ - (4♠) - 4NT
(x) - 5♣ - (5♠) - P
(P) - x - All Pass

---

Trick 1: ♥7 - ♥K - ♥2 - ♥3
Trick 2: ♠Q - ♠A - ♠2 - ♠5
Trick 3: ♦A

Making 5.

[Sambolino]

4nt created confusion. if W didn't bid 5c, E would know that signaling diamond is superior than club so he'd throw a high heart.

[kenrexford]

I don't mind 4NT. It places the values on the table for partner and is sort of like a fit-jump without the jump. Not a bad decision.

The lead is OK also.

East's heart 2 is hopeless, unless the partnership plays upside-down suit preference. West should then 100% underlead his diamond and get that ruff.

West's play of the diamond Ace was not good either. What was the point? Where is it going? Trust partner and lead the club! If South had held ♠KQJxx ♥xxx ♦KQx ♣Ax, then the diamond would have hurt. As it is, no harm no foul.

[pclayton]

4N is strange. Really strange. It shows two places to play. I'd expect a super offensive 5-5 or 6-5 in the unbids, or 3♦=6♥/♣ (maybe a great 5 bagger). Never four. West should take preference with 3 clubs - and if East pulls to 5♦, he's indicated diamonds and a heart suit. ♥98xxx doesn't count.

To the play. Are we really sure the ♦K is an entry here? What if we need an underlead in clubs? I think West should play a middlish heart to indicate neither or both Kings (obviously both).

The 4N call doesn't do anything to alter the signaling here IMO.

[ArtK78]

kenrexford, on Sep 5 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

West's play of the diamond Ace was not good either.  What was the point?  Where is it going?  Trust partner and lead the club!  If South had held ♠KQJxx ♥xxx ♦KQx ♣Ax, then the diamond would have hurt.  As it is, no harm no foul.

The play of the ♦A was made to clarify the position to East (as if it needed to be clarified). Relying on the ♥2 play at trick one, West cashed the ♦A so that, upon winning the (presumed) ♣A, East would play a heart, not a diamond.

In any event, the play of the ♦A should never cost the setting trick. I don't believe your construction of the South hand is possible. East's 4NT bid showed (to my way of thinking) a club suit with diamond tolerance. I don't believe that xxx constitutes diamond tolerance at this level.

You are giving East ♠x ♥Qxxxx ♦xxx ♣KQTx. That is quite a 4NT call.

In any event, even on your construction, the ♦A play only costs an extra undertrick. The contract is still failing.

[mikeh]

I join with Phil in disliking the 4N.

As for the defence, east has to realize that the lead was a shortness lead: so it was imperative to show where his entry lay.

He had no hope if declarer could pull trump... all the entries in the world won't let west get a ruff if he has no trump left. So he has to place partner with the spade Ace, and thus it is highly improbable that he has both minor aces as well.

Assuming that west has only one Ace, it is far, far more likely to be the diamond Ace than the club Ace. Furthermore, and more importantly, declarer is probably short in diamonds and probably has 2 clubs. So if partner has the club Ace, he can always lay it down, to get our signal. Whereas if he has the diamond Ace, he may play us for the club Ace, rather than risk the underlead. UNLESS WE TELL HIM that we like diamonds.....and the way to do that is to play the highest heart we have at trick one.

Partner should still lay down the club Ace if that's the one he holds... it cannot hurt... even if we hold the diamond Ace as our entry, we are going to fire back a heart anyway. And if he does lay down the club Ace, we play the King, and all is well in the world.

Having said all of this, I would expect many players to either miss this argument or to disagree with it... thus this is not a baby error... altho I want to repeat: I really, really dislike 4N.

[RichMor]

Regardless of what we think of the bidding, does West deserve any blame for making the 'genius' Heart lead instead of a mundane Club ?

IMO, West deserves at least 50% for the lead. Guess that leaves 50% to East for not reading the lead and signalling correctly.

[kenrexford]

I would have assumed that the signal from East is much easier than suggested.

West is not going to have five clubs for this auction. So, if West has four clubs for this auction, then Declarer has two of them. If West has the Ace of Clubs, he does not need to underlead the Ace of clubs. He can cash the Ace of clubs and then read the signal.

However, there is a stiff diamond on dummy. Thus, the only Ace that West would need to underlead is the diamond Ace. Hence, you signal that card.

Granted, from West's perspective (if he has the club Ace and four total), East might have the club King and five of them, where a club underlead is required. Thus, if West had Ax-x-QJxxxx-Axxx, then he would need to win the spade Ace and lead a high club pip to partner if partner holds x-xxxx-Kxx-KQxxx.

So, now I wonder...

[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Sep 5 2008, 04:23 PM, said:

Having said all of this, I would expect many players to either miss this argument or to disagree with it... thus this is not a baby error...

I don't entirely agree with this analysis.

East is looking at both minor suit kings.

East has surprising club shortness given the auction (I'd have thought 3-4 in the minors was very unexpected). From East's perspective, West would be fully entitled to expect five clubs. Looking at Axxx clubs, West might think he has to underlead to ensure an entry - just give East 1-5-2-5.

So it's not true, as some have said, that West can cash the ace of clubs safely to find out where East's entry is.

East has three potential cards to play at trick 1:
- a high heart
- a middle heart
- a low heart

I fully agree that a low heart is absolutely the worst, as it strongly indicates club suit preference.

However, a high card is also dangerous. I agree with pclayton that a middle heart is best if you think partner will be able to read it, because now he knows you have cards in both minors and will underlead whichever ace he has.

Quote

altho I want to repeat: I really, really dislike 4N.

If my partner bid 4NT showing a 2-suiter here I would have been in 6C and would not have had this problem (although actually we play 4NT as a good 5D bid instead).

[ArtK78]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 5 2008, 11:47 AM, said:

If my partner bid 4NT showing a 2-suiter here I would have been in 6C and would not have had this problem (although actually we play 4NT as a good 5D bid instead).

You would get a nice score in 6♣x. Even if you misguess the diamonds (which you should not do) you will be -500, beating the vast majority of pairs playing in 4♠, usually making 11 tricks (although the play in 6♣x gets a little hairy on heart leads - you had better guess the diamonds right or you could be in some trouble).

[han]

RichMor, on Sep 5 2008, 10:35 AM, said:

Regardless of what we think of the bidding, does West deserve any blame for making the 'genius' Heart lead instead of a mundane Club ?

No. Leading a singleton when you have Ax of trump is not a genius lead.

[jdonn]

Blame east. Why not play a middle heart? Of course west thought east had ace of clubs.

[dburn]

I confess, I would have defended exactly as West did, on the basis of what East did during the bidding and the play. But this post was entitled "You Be the Judge", so it might not have had anything to do with the bidding or the play at all. My view is that lethal injection is far too good for East, and so is electrocution. Something lingering with boiling oil in it would be my verdict.

[benlessard]

From the lead and AKJx on dummy it doesnt take a genius to say that its time for suit preference and not for attitude. I dont like 4Nt nor the double of 4Nt but its irrelevant. 200% blame to east

[the hog]

4NT is off the planet. The D switch is really easy to find if prtner plays the H9. I'm sorry but I disagree with MikeH here. This IS a baby error.

Playing the DA is also an error.

"West cashed the ♦A so that, upon winning the (presumed) ♣A, East would play a heart, not a diamond."
Art , this logic only applies if you are playing with a very weak player. WHY did pd lead the H in the first place?

[Lobowolf]

I don't like the ♥9 here; if West has the ♣A and no ♦A, you want him to lead a small club. Just a middle heart should suggest no glaring preference between the minors, and west should underlead the ace he has.

[sathyab]

Lobowolf, on Sep 5 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

I don't like the ♥9 here; if West has the ♣A and no ♦A, you want him to lead a small club.  Just a middle heart should suggest no glaring preference between the minors, and west should underlead the ace he has.

If you play a middle heart which happens to be the Six, how's partner supposed to read it ? Given the 4nt bid how's partner supposed to understand that you had a choice of heart spots ? Couldn't you have been dealt x 986 Kxxx KQTxx ? Funny, without that 4nt bid your side would be defending 4s, you'd then have played the ♥9 and held it to ten tricks and then be wondering why you sold out to 4s with all those minor suit cards between the two of you.

[ArtK78]

The_Hog, on Sep 5 2008, 08:05 PM, said:

4NT is off the planet. The D switch is really easy to find if prtner plays the H9. I'm sorry but I disagree with MikeH here. This IS a baby error.

Playing the DA is also an error.

"West cashed the ♦A so that, upon winning the (presumed) ♣A, East would play a heart, not a diamond."
Art , this logic only applies if you are playing with a very weak player. WHY did pd lead the H in the first place?

The ♥2 implied that partner wanted a club, not a diamond. So cashing the ♦A before playing a club cannot hurt.

What is the alternative to cashing the ♦A? Playing a club immediately? How can that be relevant? I admit that it may cost an additional undertrick. But it can never give up the 11th trick.

[MFA]

I think east should bid 5♦. 4NT is super-strange.

If partner will interpret my spot card as a suit preference at trick 1, then I'm going to play the ♥9. Yes, this might be wrong if partner has the ♣A, but I'm not going to play a muddy middle heart that will surely be unreadable to him. Better to give him the signal that is most likely to be right.

From partner's perspective, I might have the ♥Q(T)xx..., so he is not going to do something dramatic (like underleading aces), if he doesn't get a clear signal. Perhaps a middle heart should even mean just that (good hearts), rather than the actual ♦K+♣KQ.

Btw, in my partnership, small ♥ would encourage (meaning: I have the hearts under control, please be passive), big even heart (♥8) would point to clubs, big odd heart (♥9) would point to diamonds.
I would then play the ♥9 but still run the risk that partner had the wrong ace.