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Hand evaluation Game?

#1 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-September-11, 23:10

IMPs, both red

Partner opens 1NT (15-17) and you hold:
♠T94 ♥KT98 ♦Q98 ♣K54

What's your plan - pass/invite/bid game/search for heart fit or not?
Kind regards,
Harald
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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-September-11, 23:11

If I could bid 1N-2N inv I would. If I bid 1N-2C and partner bid 2H I would raise to 3H (and expect partner to often bid 3N with 3433 max now). 1N-3N is too rich for me, partner knows the game too.
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#3 User is offline   ulven 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 00:31

2C. Pass over 2H and 2NT over 2D/S.
"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."
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#4 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 00:49

And a 3rd view: I pass 1NT.

Roland
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#5 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 01:48

Invite game.

I must say you've got me here.
With an extra queen I would simply bid 3NT.
When 4♥ is better on this hand, tough luck, next hand.

Since a direct 2NT would be a transfer for diamonds I have to go trough stayman first.
No problem when the answer is 2♦ of 2♠, but when partner answers 2♥ he could have five.
Now I know we have a fit, I feel I should bid 3♥.
My partner however would not expect this flat hand and 2NT could be better than 3♥.
So I bid 2NT anyway but now there will be some tension in the air when things go wrong.

So I must discuss this one and will propose either to repeat the five-card when we accept this invite or to play it like Jlall.
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Finding your own mistakes is more productive than looking for partner's. It improves your game and is good for your soul. (Nige1)
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#6 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 02:00

skaeran, on Sep 12 2008, 12:10 AM, said:

IMPs, both red

Partner opens 1NT (15-17) and you hold:
♠T94 ♥KT98 ♦Q98 ♣K54

What's your plan - pass/invite/bid game/search for heart fit or not?

i thought pass only option.......must be missing something...wtp?

everyone else want to have a "discussion" with partner.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 02:18

ulven, on Sep 12 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

2C. Pass over 2H and 2NT over 2D/S.

I remember you wrote a blog entry about this. I can't find it though. Can you help me?

edit: found it!

http://viewsfromthebridgetable.blogspot.co...te-paradox.html
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#8 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 03:17

Walddk, on Sep 11 2008, 10:49 PM, said:

And a 3rd view: I pass 1NT.

Roland

Pass for me too.

In one of Jeff Goldsmith old articles, he discusses responding to a strong NT with a 4333 8. Pass was right then. I've kept an eye out for these over the last 6-7 years and pass tends to be a winner, especially when extra unders are factored in, and the occasional penalty when they balance.

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.
"Phil" on BBO
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 06:32

When on that narrow precipice, it is critical to know partner's 1NT style. If 14 upgrades are common, and if therefore some 17's are treated as 18's, then clear pass.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#10 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 08:02

Too many intermediates for me to pass. I'm going to invite via 2NT invitational if i have that available.
- Andy -

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#11 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 08:05

pclayton, on Sep 12 2008, 04:17 AM, said:

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.

What would a pretty 4333 8 look like?
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#12 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 08:31

Invite, searching for the heart fit.

If you play MP, you may pass, but I dont think that
this will be the field choice, playing IMPs, you should
go looking for game.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 08:50

jtfanclub, on Sep 12 2008, 06:05 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 12 2008, 04:17 AM, said:

In spite of the several intermediates, this is a pretty ugly 8.

What would a pretty 4333 8 look like?

AT9x xxx ATx T9x
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:10

Pass.
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#15 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:13

OK you got me, I can't pass with 109 1098 so I'm going to invite.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#16 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:14

I have (expert) friends to whom this is a wtp pass, and others to whom this is a wtp, invite hand... for me, it is a problem :)

I pass.

One of the lesser reasons is that I have no partnership in which I can bid an invitational 2N, without going through 2♣, and if partner bids 2♥, I am really, truly, stuck. Yes, in theory partner can bid 3N with Justin's max 3433, but so what? This hand will play very poorly opposite most 3=4=3=3 hands.. whether that be in notrump or hearts.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#17 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:21

I think calling this a 4333 8 is a bad evaluation of the hand. This is clearly much better than your average 4333 8 (which I agree is usually a pass).
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#18 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:30

Definitely invite.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#19 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 09:38

I tend to invite with balanced 8-counts only if I like my hand and only if vulnerable. My partners tend to be good declarers but they also tend to upgrade 14-counts when appropriate (and sometimes when not appropriate, but that is not my problem).

This hand I like enough that I would invite (since we are vulnerable).

I happen to use 1NT-2NT as invitational in my regular partnership with Brad Moss. I hate having to go through Stayman whenever you have to invite, especially if you have no intention of ever playing in 4 of a major.

If you do have to go this route to invite, Passing becomes more attractive but you also might want to consider bidding Stayman and bidding 2NT next even if partner does show 4 hearts. That is kind of a psycho idea, but it could easily work well. Of course it is not safe to do this if Stayman promises a 4-card major in your partnership (since partner might bid 4S over your 2NT rebid).

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#20 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2008-September-12, 10:10

Given that we're vulnerable and its IMPs and assuming 15-17 means what it says, then I think I have to invite. Even if 14 upgrades are quite common I think I still come down on the side of inviting. I think I prefer to simply make a quantative invite to 3N without searching for a heart fit as the only reason I am inviting is the intermediates - which tend to be useful in NT contracts and of relatively little value in a suit contract (or to put it another way, I think this is an invitational hand in NT, but not for hearts).

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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