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How to bid this bidding

#1 User is offline   Mosene 

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Posted 2008-August-19, 11:18

Your are the dealer with the hand below and the bidding goes as follows:

1 - P - 1 - p
3 - P - 3 - p
??

What do you bid next and why?

---
1073
A73
AKQ10987
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-19, 11:20

4, which I believe should show spade shortness three card diamond support since I have already denied four hearts. It's possible we can end in diamonds when we belong in clubs but I'm not sure that can be helped since I refuse to not support diamonds now.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#3 User is offline   ArcLight 

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Posted 2008-August-19, 11:39

How about 3, asking pard to bid 3NT with a stopper?
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#4 User is offline   Mosene 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 16:47

I bid 4 diamonds. And partner bid 5 diamonds - do you then pass? I did. We only made 7. I felt partner could (should) have bid 4 hearts after 5 diamonds. I then bid 4 spades and we are off to the races. Is 4 spades clear cut? Does 4 diamonds show 3?

Partners hand.

qx
AKJX
KQ9XXXX
--
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#5 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 16:59

Mosene, on Aug 20 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

I bid 4 diamonds. And partner bid 5 diamonds - do you then pass? I did. We only made 7. I felt partner could (should) have bid 4 hearts after 5 diamonds. I then bid 4 spades and we are off to the races. Is 4 spades clear cut? Does 4 diamonds show 3?

Partners hand.

qx
AKJX
KQ9XXXX
--

I think your pard has a 4 call over 4 - although there is some concern this could denote a 5-6.
"Phil" on BBO
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:25

Wow, if partner wants to bid diamonds over 4, he should certainly bid 6, not 5.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#7 User is offline   Mosene 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:34

I am mostly interested in the merits of 4 instead of 4. Is 4 spades fairly automatic, or is it close b/n 4 spades and 4 diamonds? My thought was that 4 diamonds is forcing and gives partner more room (plus it was a pick-up partner on BBO so I thought 4 spades had a risk side to it as well). Not sure if it shows 3 diamonds or not - although I think it should.

Any input appreciated. Thanks.
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#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:37

4 would have to show three diamonds since with a hand like xx AQx Ax KQJxxx could bid 4, having already denied four of them (or 3 if it wanted to). Other than that partner might misunderstand though, I can't think of any reason NOT to bid 4. Can you?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:43

jdonn, on Aug 20 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

4 would have to show three diamonds since with a hand like xx AQx Ax KQJxxx could bid 4, having already denied four of them (or 3 if it wanted to). Other than that partner might misunderstand though, I can't think of any reason NOT to bid 4. Can you?

Does 3 promise a control? (no)

Does 4 say "bid 6 with a heart control"? (no).
"Phil" on BBO
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#10 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:45

pclayton, on Aug 20 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 20 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

4 would have to show three diamonds since with a hand like xx AQx Ax KQJxxx could bid 4, having already denied four of them (or 3 if it wanted to). Other than that partner might misunderstand though, I can't think of any reason NOT to bid 4. Can you?

Does 3 promise a control? (no)

Does 4 say "bid 6 with a heart control"? (no).

Is 4 the last bid below slam? (no)

Are you still sure 4 4 doesn't promise 5-6, or is even forcing? (no)
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#11 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:50

Agree that 4 is easily the best bid playing with a regular partner.

Don't know what is best playing with a BBO pick-up partner.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#12 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-August-20, 17:50

pclayton, on Aug 20 2008, 05:43 PM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 20 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

4 would have to show three diamonds since with a hand like xx AQx Ax KQJxxx could bid 4, having already denied four of them (or 3 if it wanted to). Other than that partner might misunderstand though, I can't think of any reason NOT to bid 4. Can you?

Does 3 promise a control? (no)

Does 4 say "bid 6 with a heart control"? (no).

Do I want to say "Bid 6 with a heart control!"? (no)
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-August-21, 11:04

4 looks superb to me.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#14 User is offline   Edmunte1 

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Posted 2008-August-21, 13:57

-I think your partner should have started with 3 instead of 3
1-1
3-3
4-4
5(exc)-7

-Over 4 he had an easy 4 bid too
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#15 User is offline   miguelm 

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Posted 2008-August-22, 04:45

4S strikes me as a bit dangerous... is our fit in Diams. that clear...? Can't I have 4 Hearts...? If not, why the 3H bid...?

After the 3H bid, two bids are still possible, 3S (4th suit) and 4D.
I like 3S better. 4D sounds like a hand that doesn't want to go further if partner can't make an attempt on his own. After 3H I don't think I need him to have that much.

After 3S, if partner bids 3N (or 4C for that matter), I will clarifie where we stand with 4D, if he bids 4D, I will bid 4S.
It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents.
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#16 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-August-22, 10:35

miguelm, on Aug 22 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

4S strikes me as a bit dangerous... is our fit in Diams. that clear...? Can't I have 4 Hearts...? If not, why the 3H bid...?

The 3 jump rebid denies holding a 4-card major suit.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#17 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-August-24, 03:12

Mosene, on Aug 19 2008, 12:18 PM, said:

Your are the dealer with the hand below and the bidding goes as follows:

1 - P - 1 - p
3 - P - 3 - p
??

What do you bid next and why?

---
1073
A73
AKQ10987

Hi,

3S.

For whats it worth: partner does not need to hold 5
diamonds, 3H was just stopper showing.
He may be 4-4, he may be 4333, what do I know,
and for that matter partner does not need to hold
more than 7/8HCP either.

If you dont want to bid 3S, bid 4C, setting trumps.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: whith partners actual hand, he should have bid
3D, it showes 5 diamond, and gives partner max. room
to decribe his hand further, if you dont like the bid, bid
4D, after 3C you wont stop below th 6 level anyway, so
you may as well show your 6 card suit.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#18 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-August-24, 03:29

miguelm, on Aug 22 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

4S strikes me as a bit dangerous... is our fit in Diams. that clear...? Can't I have 4 Hearts...? If not, why the 3H bid...?

3 shows a stopper (although 3 followed by 4 might be interpreted as 5-6, as Phil says).

Arc said:

What about 3, asking p to bid 3NT with a spade stopper?
I think p would have bid 3NT instead of 3 if 3NT is the right contract. 3 should show a little bid in spades, at least Jx or xxx I think.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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