Help
Partner's double is takeout-oriented, and implies that he thinks we might have game on, but doesn't have enough shape or strength to commit to bidding.
What would you do, and is it close?
Page 1 of 1
Take it out?
#1
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-August-19, 02:38
Partner's double is takeout-oriented, and implies that he thinks we might have game on, but doesn't have enough shape or strength to commit to bidding.
What would you do, and is it close?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#2
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 593
- Joined: 2003-October-26
- Location:Galati, Romania
Posted 2008-August-19, 03:14
Yes, 5♦, not close for me.
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,950
- Joined: 2008-April-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Copenhagen
- Interests:Model-Railways.
Posted 2008-August-19, 04:12
Edmunte1, on Aug 19 2008, 11:14 AM, said:
Yes, 5♦, not close for me.
Me 2
_____________________________________
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#4
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 895
- Joined: 2006-May-13
- Location:Dublin
- Interests:Artificial Intelligence, Computer Games, Satire, Football, Rugby... and Bridge I suppose.
Posted 2008-August-19, 06:09
Partner's double should be closer to penalties than take-out. With the minors he can bid 4N and with ♠s he can bid 4♠. What does he do with a good hand with no fit against opponents who are likely to be sacraficing? In practice, pard probably has values and not much of a spade fit.
I still think I'm bidding 5♦ though for fear of a double game swing, but this really is a guess. If it's a double fit, we want to be on the 5-level and if it's a mis-fit, we want to be defending 4H. It's hard to tell, but I reckon if I bid it confidently enough, the opps may take the tempting push to 5H favourable (Clayton's law) by which time pard is already informed of my ♦ suit and can hopefully judge what to do.
I do consider it close though. I could well be talked into passing 4Hx.
I still think I'm bidding 5♦ though for fear of a double game swing, but this really is a guess. If it's a double fit, we want to be on the 5-level and if it's a mis-fit, we want to be defending 4H. It's hard to tell, but I reckon if I bid it confidently enough, the opps may take the tempting push to 5H favourable (Clayton's law) by which time pard is already informed of my ♦ suit and can hopefully judge what to do.
I do consider it close though. I could well be talked into passing 4Hx.
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
#5
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 173
- Joined: 2005-April-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:Belgrade, Serbia
Posted 2008-August-19, 06:14
agree with brian
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,502
- Joined: 2007-December-22
Posted 2008-August-19, 06:35
Since partner has made a takeout double, and I hold a 5-5, I am definitely bidding and not passing.
However, I am not confident about what to bid. Partner could very well have 3 card spades for his double. Or, he might not. Anyway, I think I would bid 4♠, with 5♦ as a close second choice.
Not sure why, when the original poster kindly tells us double by agreement is takeout oriented, that we should assume double is 'closer to penalties than take-out.'
However, I am not confident about what to bid. Partner could very well have 3 card spades for his double. Or, he might not. Anyway, I think I would bid 4♠, with 5♦ as a close second choice.
Not sure why, when the original poster kindly tells us double by agreement is takeout oriented, that we should assume double is 'closer to penalties than take-out.'
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,016
- Joined: 2005-June-20
- Location:Lovettsville, VA
Posted 2008-August-19, 08:27
5D, not close.
The idea that partner has hidden spade support in order to make an unagreed "values" dbl cannot be right. I would be very disappointed if partner showed up with 3s on this auction.
The idea that partner has hidden spade support in order to make an unagreed "values" dbl cannot be right. I would be very disappointed if partner showed up with 3s on this auction.
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,962
- Joined: 2007-September-14
- Location:Australia
- Interests:The Universe, Traveling, Squash, and Scandinavia.
Posted 2008-August-19, 08:46
I'm going to bid my hand. 5D.
- Andy -
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2008-August-19, 09:00
5♦ seems clear, but its easy to see how some perfectos with ♦AKxxx / ♣A give us slam.
What's 4N? Pick a minor? That seems a little redundant to me. Even if it were, I think I'm not good enough for 4N...5♣...5♦.
What's 4N? Pick a minor? That seems a little redundant to me. Even if it were, I think I'm not good enough for 4N...5♣...5♦.
"Phil" on BBO
#10
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-August-19, 09:04
pclayton, on Aug 19 2008, 04:00 PM, said:
5♦ seems clear, but its easy to see how some perfectos with ♦AKxxx / ♣A give us slam.
What's 4N? Pick a minor? That seems a little redundant to me. Even if it were, I think I'm not good enough for 4N...5♣...5♦.
What's 4N? Pick a minor? That seems a little redundant to me. Even if it were, I think I'm not good enough for 4N...5♣...5♦.
Yes, 4NT would be pick a minor, presumably with 5044, 5134 or 5143, and yes 4NT-5♣-5♦ would show a slam try.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,557
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2008-August-19, 14:22
brianshark, on Aug 19 2008, 07:09 AM, said:
Quote
Partner's double should be closer to penalties than take-out. With the minors he can bid 4N and with ♠s he can bid 4♠. What does he do with a good hand with no fit against opponents who are likely to be sacraficing? In practice, pard probably has values and not much of a spade fit.
Am I alone in the world in playing that 4N here (by advancer, instead of double) would be keycard in spades, given that double is takeout oriented? it seems to me to be more useful this way than having 2 takeout bids, with double presumably more penalty oriented than 4N. I'd play it as minors if partner opened 1♠ and rho overcalled 4♥, but this auction, altho superficially similar, is different by enough to make me use keycard here.
Given that, 5♦ is a standout... I'd like a better hand for the sequence 4N (pick a suit) then 5♦, which should inferentially be a 5.5♦ call.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#12
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-August-19, 17:07
mikeh, on Aug 19 2008, 09:22 PM, said:
Am I alone in the world in playing that 4N here (by advancer, instead of double) would be keycard in spades, given that double is takeout oriented?
Probably not, but I think it's wrong. The auction is difficult enough without having to make the same bid on xx x KQ10xx AQxxx and Kx xxx AQJx Qxxx
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
Page 1 of 1
2♥ 2♠ 4♥ dbl
pass