[KamalK]

Hello friends,

I was kibbing when this hand was dealt.

N-S are a regular partnership, play SAYC (with Jacoby2NT).

Am trying to understand J2NT bidding and responses, all help welcome on this one.

Questions :

1. Can an Ace be shown as "shortage"?

2. Can North break J2NT sequence and bid 4H direct?

3. What should South have rebid ? Should be 4C to show shortness? (Again an honour card J♣)

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♥    Pass  2NT
 Pass  3♦    Pass  4♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

Luckily, lead was ♣10 which helped N-S to get to 4♥+2.

Thanks & Warm regards

Kamal

[P_Marlowe]

#1 yes / no, a matter of partnership agreement.
It is similar to the question, do you make a splinter bid in a
suit, if you happen to hold the single Ace / King,
You may search the forum, long threads ahead.

#2 Sure, a 4H response to a 2NT bid showes a min. opener.
But several partnerships have the agreements that a hand
with a shortage is never a min. opener.

#3 4H is fine, the diamond shortage is not a feature that makes
South happy.
Since South can bid 3H to show some real slam interest a 3S
bid is an option, a 4C bid would deny a spade control, so is
out.
The fact that South holds the single Jack in the club suit does
not matter, similar if he would hold the Queen.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[brianshark]

There are a few different styles of responding to Jacoby 2NT. This is mine:

1st priority is to show a strong 5 card side suit at the 4-level. This should be a very good suit. Nothing less than KQTxx is good enough. Ideally, almost all your strength will be concentrated in your two suits. It needs to be very descriptive to justify the space the jump consumes.

2nd priority is to show shortness at the 3-level. Singleton or void. I strongly discourage showing a singleton K as a singleton because pard will mis-evaluate his holdings in that suit too often. Singleton A isn't as bad but still discouraged.

3rd priority is to show the strength of your hand. This means that with a minimum (11-14), jump to 4M. With a medium hand (15-17), bid 3NT. And with a maximum hand (18+) bid 3M.

On the given hand, I disagree with South's 2NT bid. Bidding Jacoby with a singleton should be discouraged (except singleton K or A is ok). When holding a singleton Q or smaller, just treat it as a small x. A splinter is appropriate with that hand.

[Mbodell]

I bid like brianshark suggests except I'm not quite as strict on k-singleton or on the quality of the 5 card suit being so strong. Also my point count is a little lighter for the balanced bad/ok/great (maybe <13,14-16,16+)

[Gerben42]

Auction was okay, result was okay, everyone happy (okay not EW)

[HeavyDluxe]

My thoughts, which basically echo what has been said already:

1. Can an Ace be shown as "shortage"?

Yes and no. 'Splintering' on a stiff ace seems to make evaluating the hand harder for the rest of the auction (at least for people I play with). So, typically, I avoid that. However, sometimes that's just the most descriptive bid for your hand... Here's where the my old nemesis 'bidding judgment' rears his ugly head.

2. Can North break J2NT sequence and bid 4H direct?

Yes... This is the weakest action (see brianshark's response listing)... I think this is what I would've bid at the table, actually.

3. What should South have rebid ? Should be 4C to show shortness? (Again an honour card J♣)

If you mean over 3♦, I think south should bid 4♥. South's hand simply isn't great. If north had bid 4♥ direct, south should pass. I personally think that South had no business with either J2NT or a splinter... But, given his shape 2NT was the worse option, IMHO.

[neilkaz]

Many of us don't care for the "standard" response methods after J2NT. However, using them, the bidding seems fine here after 2NT. With a 6th ♥ and stiff, allbeit the ace, I think N has more than a dead minimum and should bid 3♦.

After hearing about the ♦ stiff, South's minimum is devalued and he's correct to sign off in 4♥.

I would have splintered with South's hand. It certainly is a minimum GF, but I splinter anyhow.

[KamalK]

Many thanks all who responded. Very useful info.

Thats why I always prefer to bounce off my queries at this very nice Forum, rather than asking around randomly at BBO.

Incidentally I also forwarded the topic of this link to the concerned player of this hand and she is also joining the Forum as a member.

Thanks again and with warm regards to all

Kamal

[Lobowolf]

I would have splintered with the south hand also. That being said, in my regular partnerships, a jump to 4♥ would deny shortness, and north would be expected to rebid 3♦. The example hand is a good illustration of why the sky isn't necessarily going to fall because you splintered with an ace -- south doesn't like his diamond holding opposite a stiff x, and he doesn't like it opposite a stiff A, either.

With one regular partner (and one former partner) I played a modified version of Jacoby 2NT that allowed you to show the minimum AND shortness, so you didn't feel any guilty twinges about showing a stiff A. After 1NT - 2M:

3♣ = unspecificied shortness with extras (3♦ asks, then opener bids the singleton or bids 3NT with a void, after which 4♣ asks).
3♦ = unspecified shortness with a minimum (3♥ asks, etc.)
3 (other major) = 6-card major, no shortness.
3 (our major) = strongest version of a hand with no shortness (about an good 16+)
3NT = medium version of a hand with no shortness (about 14 to 16-)
4 (our major) = weak version of a hand with no shortness (whatever you've got that's not worth 3NT)
4 (other suit) = 5-card suit, 2 of the top 3 honors.

[han]

South did not have a 2NT bid.

[mikeh]

han, on Aug 13 2008, 12:13 PM, said:

South did not have a 2NT bid.

Agreed

South has a hand that is worth a raise to game but only because of his controls (the Aces and the stiff) and the 4th trump. The way to show this is to bid 4♣, allowing opener to immediately evaluate the hand. Opener will not like the fact that he has 6 hcp opposite a stiff, but he may like the rest of his hand enough to cue 4♦, over which S will bid 4♥, having said it all... he can hardly have less than this for a splinter, and North can move again if his hand warrants a slam try opposite a minimum splinter raise. It doesn't and the auction will end.

Some players restrict splinters to a narrow strength range (I have become one of them.. my splinters are either about the strength of this South hand or very strong indeed .... so strong that I will bid again over a signoff) and opposite such a splinter, North doesn't even bother with 4♦.

J2N should deliver more hcp power, imo.

And all serious players should learn a better response structure than basic J2N, altho that structure is better than nothing and is easy to learn.

[Lobowolf]

Lobowolf, on Aug 13 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

After 1NT - 2M:

As you might expect, this should read "After 1M - 2NT:"