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A first for me

Poll: Action! (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Action!

  1. Pass (1 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  2. Double (10 votes [52.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.63%

  3. 5 D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 5 H (6 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

  5. 5 N (2 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

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#1 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-July-30, 22:33

Scoring: IMP

3♣ (4♠) - ?

Nice heart spots, eh? Sorry 4N isn't takeout.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-July-30, 22:53

I would double.
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#3 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 00:36

Agree with double. Bidding a suit is too unilateral, and if there's not fit you're screwed.
Ming

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#4 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 01:08

If partner has some typical (for my partners) hand like:

xx
xx
xx
AQJT987

I need both red kings onside and decent splits and other things that are not going to happen to make 5♥.

So suppose RHO has a hand like:

KQJxxxxx
-v-
KJTx
x

I can't imagine what other sort of hand he could have considering my raw power and the vulnerability.

So on a spade lead, we take the ace, club to the A, diamond Q, A, ruff, heart discovers the void, looks like we lose a spade, a heart, and a club. Pretty easy to mix the stuff around so that 5♣ makes, though. But trying to play in either red suit would be a nightmare.

Are they going to make? Well, they have a spade loser, two diamond losers, and a club loser. Maybe have another loser if my partner looks at dummy and figures out the diamond switch. Tough for me to arrange RHO so he'd have fewer losers than what I've given him.

So looks like a double to me. If I was going to bid a suit, I would bid clubs, because, well, partner made a vulnerable bid at the 3 level, so I don't think he has trash, and I'm going to desperately need entries to dummy. If partner has Kx in hearts and QJT9876 in clubs...I'm probably still better off in clubs.
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#5 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 08:48

I learned a long time ago that it pays to double when we have three suits ruled even if we don't have decent trump.

Remember to lead the ♠A.
"Phil" on BBO
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#6 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 09:37

Does 4NT here ask 'how good are your clubs? 2-loser =5C; 1-loser =6C; solid =show short/K-side, eg. Ace ask unneeded as never 3C with 2xA.
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 09:41

I think 4NT here is just keycards, with 0, 1, 1+Q, 2, 2+Q responses. Your scheme may be better over clubs.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#8 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 09:49

I guess the bidding problem is not that interesting.
What happened at the table is that I made a bad bid (5♥), which is not a first to me.
What was a first to me is that I ran into a 7-0-0 trump break at the 5-level.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 10:09

Ouch!
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#10 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 10:16

Btw, partner had xx - KJ9x QT9xxxxx, and RHO had KJT-8th - x AKJx. So despite the 7-0 break and misplaying for down 3 rather than down 2, I did better than the doublers.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#11 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-July-31, 10:19

cherdano, on Jul 31 2008, 11:16 AM, said:

Btw, partner had xx - KJ9x QT9xxxxx, and RHO had KJT-8th - x AKJx. So despite the 7-0 break and misplaying for down 3 rather than down 2, I did better than the doublers.

Your misplaying it was by far the worst thing you did on the hand. FWIW I would bid 5H and don't think it's a bad bid. With a good RHO double is not really attractive over this 4S jump, they are not preempting vs a preempt.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I don't like doubling against me. I would rather pass than double. I would rather bid though since you could easily make something or push us to 5S.
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 10:23

I still like double. A 6-1 break would probably make double work better and bidding work the same hehe.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#13 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-July-31, 11:47

jdonn, on Jul 31 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

I still like double. A 6-1 break would probably make double work better and bidding work the same hehe.

If RHO were 8113 with the same honors, double would still concede 590...
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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