[maxentius]

is wellknown about grand slam try, asking about 3-rd round control, after an agreed major: 1M-2M-4NT-5x-6m

I would like to ask about this kind of grand slam try about an agreed minor and I'll give you my example where I didn't know to control this kind of grand slam. My S hand was:

♠KQ
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AQJxxx

and the biding was:

S W N E
1♣ - 1♦ - Dbl* - p
2♦ - 3♦ - 4♣ - p
4NT - p - 5♦**- p
??

we will not commets too much about the bidding untill this moment, let's try to solve the problem starting now

Dbl= could be invited only with ♣ support with or without 4 cards in a M in a balanced or semibalanced hand (sure 1♣-(1♦)-2♦= would denies 4 cards in a M)
5♦= 03KC

sure, is very easy to bid 7♣, 7NT or something else, I just want to ask a constructive way to find a 3-rd round control in ♥...am I very sure I would bid 5NT partner would not bid 7♣ with next hand?

♠Axx
♥xxxx
♦A
♣Kxxxx

or
♠Ax
♥xxx
♦Axx
♣Kxxxx

for me is very important 3 things:
- to find xx in ♥
- to find the Q in ♥
- to find AJxx in ♠

how can I inform him about it?

[gnasher]

Regardless of whether a minor or a major is agreed, any new suit asks for third-round control, unless it's asking for the queen of trumps. In this auction 5♥ would ask for the queen of trumps, so 6♥ asks for third-round heart control.

[mike777]

"Dbl= could be invited only with ♣ support with or without 4 cards in a M in a balanced or semibalanced"




I do not understand

Why rebid 2d and not 4h?


You say partner has both majors or invite in clubs yes or what?
1) partner has both majors
2) partner does not but has invite in clubs?
3) If you rebid 4h partner knows you have a huge hand...4 loser with lots of hearts and clubs.
4) if you do not rebid 4h partner assumes you have less, much less.

[maxentius]

I'm not so sure that 4♥ means strong hand:

♠xx
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AKxxxx

is it for 3♥ only?

on the other hand, double could include an invited hand with a bad 4 cards major and good minor support...do not bid 1M over their 1♦ with xxxx and a good support...do not receive a bad lead if you would be in deffence, bla, bla...this is the system, doesn't matter, I was asking about other think...the way to require a 3-rd Major control

[mike777]

maxentius, on Jul 24 2008, 07:02 AM, said:

I'm not so sure that 4♥ means strong hand:

♠xx
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AKxxxx

is it for 3♥ only?

on the other hand, double could include an invited hand with a bad 4 cards major and good minor support...do not bid 1M over their 1♦ with xxxx and a good support...do not receive a bad lead if you would be in deffence, bla, bla...this is the system, doesn't matter, I was asking about other think...the way to require a 3-rd Major control

Well this is not close to a 4h bid....but still not sure what the heck responder shows.
My point being your failure to bid 4h...confuses partner he thinks you do not have this hand.
♠KQ
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AQJxxx

[maxentius]

maybe yes, maybe not...but sure, now, after the bidding goes in this way I heard more informations

so, in my oppinion 2♦ means 3 things:

1) both majors with not a minimal hand...in order to play 2M
2) strong hand witha major, 18+
3) strong hand with ♣ suit, stronger then 3♣ bidding


4M= just a good hand and a good shape...less then 18 HCP

[Edmunte1]

- I think that it's important to show 4+ card majors over 1♦ overcall as long as doubling with an unspecified major can be vulnerable to LHO preempt. In your example you didn't get the oportunity to know what 4 card major partner had, and that could be usefull (of course, ♠J will still be an enigma, but knowing partner has 4♠+5+♣ increases the chance for heart shortage or ♠J). I like dbl=4+h, 1he=4+s, 1s=no 4M, but i think any method is ok.
- As long as 6NT is safe, partner should unerstand 6♥ as a 3rd round control in hearts ask for grand. Of course partner could have Ax xxx Axx Kxxxx and 6NT will be down and 6♣ will make, but i think it deserves the risk

[mike777]

maxentius, on Jul 24 2008, 07:20 AM, said:

maybe yes, maybe not...but sure, now, after the bidding goes in this way I heard more informations

so, in my oppinion 2♦ means 3 things:

1) both majors with not a minimal hand...in order to play 2M
2) strong hand witha major, 18+
3) strong hand with ♣ suit, stronger then 3♣ bidding


4M= just a good hand and a good shape...less then 18 HCP

1)ok so now you tell us 2d and 4nt rebid shows a huge huge hand 18+ some 4 loser hand.....
2) Now I ask does 5h over 5d now ask for q of clubs(trumps) or show K of h and grand try?
3) note rebidding 4h over x may solve alot of these problems but it is your system.

[mike777]

btw I prefer 4d to be rkc for clubs, kickback...partner bids 4h showing 0-3 now you got more room but it is your system.

note........partner bids 4c now:


4d=4h=(0-3)

now you get to cuebid all sorts of good things at low level to try for grand.

[mike777]

maxentius, on Jul 24 2008, 06:29 AM, said:

is wellknown about grand slam try, asking about 3-rd round control, after an agreed major: 1M-2M-4NT-5x-6m

I would like to ask about this kind of grand slam try about an agreed minor and I'll give you my example where I didn't know to control this kind of grand slam. My S hand was:

♠KQ
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AQJxxx

and the biding was:

S W N E
1♣ - 1♦ - Dbl* - p
2♦ - 3♦ - 4♣ - p
4NT - p - 5♦**- p
??

we will not commets too much about the bidding untill this moment, let's try to solve the problem starting now

Dbl= could be invited only with ♣ support with or without 4 cards in a M in a balanced or semibalanced hand (sure 1♣-(1♦)-2♦= would denies 4 cards in a M)
5♦= 03KC

sure, is very easy to bid 7♣, 7NT or something else, I just want to ask a constructive way to find a 3-rd round control in ♥...am I very sure I would bid 5NT partner would not bid 7♣ with next hand?

♠Axx
♥xxxx
♦A
♣Kxxxx

or
♠Ax
♥xxx
♦Axx
♣Kxxxx

for me is very important 3 things:
- to find xx in ♥
- to find the Q in ♥
- to find AJxx in ♠

how can I inform him about it?

I must ask why not just play standard bidding over 1d overcall?
x=both majors
bid major =4+
2d=deny 4 card major, invite in clubs, etc.....

If you want to add something funky see reverse flannery still on over 1d overcall.
1c=(1d)=2h(4+h and 5+spades, less than invite but not silly)

[gnasher]

mike777, on Jul 24 2008, 01:07 PM, said:

maxentius, on Jul 24 2008, 07:02 AM, said:

♠xx
♥AKxx
♦x
♣AKxxxx

Well this is not close to a 4h bid

I would bid 4♥ with the hand quoted. Where do I want to play opposite KQxx Qxxx xxx xx ?