Help
(1♣) 1♦ (1♠) P
(2♣) 3♣.
What does 3♣ show?
Page 1 of 1
A cuebid
#1
- 5555
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,520
- Joined: 2003-September-04
- Gender:Male
Posted 2008-July-11, 13:28
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#2
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 296
- Joined: 2006-May-26
Posted 2008-July-11, 13:38
I think standard is very strong hand with a club stopper - probably a hand with running diamonds.
#3 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-July-11, 14:17
I think 2S would be natural so 3C is the only cue, so a very strong 1 suiter in diamonds interested in 3N.
#4
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-July-11, 14:26
Jlall, on Jul 11 2008, 09:17 PM, said:
I think 2S would be natural so 3C is the only cue, so a very strong 1 suiter in diamonds interested in 3N.
Wouldn't that hand bid 3♣ over 1♣?
Mind you, I don't have anything better to suggest. Perhaps it's some unequal red two-suiter, in some way different from 1♦ followed by 2NT.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-July-11, 14:28
gnasher, on Jul 11 2008, 03:26 PM, said:
Jlall, on Jul 11 2008, 09:17 PM, said:
I think 2S would be natural so 3C is the only cue, so a very strong 1 suiter in diamonds interested in 3N.
Wouldn't that hand bid 3♣ over 1♣?
Mind you, I don't have anything better to suggest. Perhaps it's some unequal red two-suiter, in some way different from 1♦ followed by 2NT.
It is common for people I know to play 1C 3C as natural. Even if they don't, I don't see why they would bid 3C over 1C with no spade stopper and with a club stopper, or with no stopper in either black suit, or with a stopper in both black suits and not solid diamonds, or with a hand that is like Kxxx A AKQxxxx x that might want to play in spades until the opps bid 1S.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,016
- Joined: 2005-June-20
- Location:Lovettsville, VA
Posted 2008-July-11, 14:50
If long, stolid diam without club stopper, why not 3C initially?
Maybe this shows a club stopper. (Then why not 3N initially? )
Maybe not that strong or diams not that solid, something like Kx xx AQJxxxx Ax.
Or maybe strong 4h/6d, like x KQJx AQJxxx Ax looking for a potential heart fit (then why not dbl 2nd time around?).
Anyway, it is forcing. Find a bid.
Maybe this shows a club stopper. (Then why not 3N initially? )
Maybe not that strong or diams not that solid, something like Kx xx AQJxxxx Ax.
Or maybe strong 4h/6d, like x KQJx AQJxxx Ax looking for a potential heart fit (then why not dbl 2nd time around?).
Anyway, it is forcing. Find a bid.
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2008-July-11, 14:58
SoTired, on Jul 11 2008, 03:50 PM, said:
If long, stolid diam without club stopper, why not 3C initially?
Justin already answered that question. Many (most?) players play that 3♣ over 1♣ is natural and preemptive - long clubs. Same with 3♦ over 1♦.
3 of a major over 1 of a major asks partner to bid 3NT with a stopper.
#8
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2008-July-11, 15:05
I bid this 1D followed by 3C with x A10 AKJ10xxxx xx. I was not sure what the direct 3C meant (afterwards I learned that we play it as stopper ask).
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#9
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-July-11, 15:20
han, on Jul 11 2008, 10:05 PM, said:
I bid this 1D followed by 3C with x A10 AKJ10xxxx xx. I was not sure what the direct 3C meant (afterwards I learned that we play it as stopper ask).
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
I'd bid 5♦. To bid the stopper ask, you have to be strong enough to control the auction if it doesn't continue pass-3NT-pass. In any case, I don't have either solid diamonds or a spade stop.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,016
- Joined: 2005-June-20
- Location:Lovettsville, VA
Posted 2008-July-11, 15:32
OK - I did not see that (1C) 3C is natural. Then this 3C is clearl asking for a stopper. x Ax AKJxxxxx xx seems like a reasonable hand. And AKJ-8th is a solid suit, just like AKQ-7th is a solid suit. Since clubs were rebid and spades were not supported and have not yet been rebid, I think just the lack of a club stopper is the critical factor.
So, to me, everything seems reasonable
So, to me, everything seems reasonable
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
#11
- - - T98765432 AQT8
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,085
- Joined: 2005-June-23
- Gender:Male
- Location:Las Vegas, NV
Posted 2008-July-12, 10:08
I just think 3♣ shows a very good hand and is not specific as to stoppers. I told Han that his hand was light but reasonable for the bid.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-July-12, 12:30
han, on Jul 11 2008, 04:05 PM, said:
I bid this 1D followed by 3C with x A10 AKJ10xxxx xx. I was not sure what the direct 3C meant (afterwards I learned that we play it as stopper ask).
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
Both sides were vulnerable at IMPs. Would you bid 1D or 5D or something entirely different? What if you were confident that 3C is a "stopper ask", would you use it then?
Please overcall 5D!
#13
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2008-July-12, 17:55
SoTired, on Jul 11 2008, 10:32 PM, said:
And AKJ-8th is a solid suit, just like AKQ-7th is a solid suit.
Yes, just the same, except that the 8-card suit is more likely to be opposite a singleton than the 7-card suit, and opposite a singleton AKQxxxx will be solid about 2/3 of the time, whereas AKJ10xxxx will be solid about 1/2 of the time.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
Page 1 of 1