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penalty double

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 11:54

2♦-2♥-X

doubler and preemptor agreed that this double is for penalties. does the doubler need to self-alert his call? ACBL tourney
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 12:16

Everyone play this as penalties. Did the rules say that all penalty doubles must be alerted? Did they make an exception for 7NT?
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 12:22

I hope my opponents would alert if it's not for penalty.
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#4 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 12:34

Assuming 2♦ is a weak 2, I've never heard of anyone playing negative doubles in this situation, nor of any need to alert this penalty double.

#5 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 12:54

Unfortunately under the existing English alerting rules it's alertable if it's for penalties. But from a TD'ing point of view I wouldn't adjust if it wasn't alerted.

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#6 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-June-15, 14:52

don't know much about rules really.. but i would've thought all x's are self-alerted so you don't need to alert them, other than maybe 1NT-(dbl) with it having a special meaning like a single/two-suiter

and never heard anyone play this x as takeout in these type of preempt-(bid)-X auctions.. wait, a few english juniors did used to :D
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2008-June-17, 00:07

If juniors are doing it, it's practically proof that it's nonstandard. :)

#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-June-17, 17:24

gwnn, on Jun 15 2008, 12:54 PM, said:

2♦-2♥-X

doubler and preemptor agreed that this double is for penalties. does the doubler need to self-alert his call? ACBL tourney

I had this come up in a f2f KO and called the director. It turned out the x was for takeout and was not alerted as such. Ruling was that it need not be alerted. Later, I asked about 5 other directors at the tourney and they all agreed with the ruling.

I still think they got it wrong. Unusual doubles need to be alerted and I think this is an unusual double.

I do not think a penalty double is alertable in this situation and need not be selfalerted.
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