[shezifi]

And what is in the "rules and regulations" : (http://www.eurobridg...Regulations.pdf)

5. Byes, Ranking and Ties
5.1
Byes
In the event of a team having a bye in any session it will receive 18 VPs.

A team must play against each other team against which it is drawn. A team will score zero if, by its own fault, it is not able to play against another team. Its opponents will receive a figure arrived at by taking the average score obtained against the defaulting team by the eight teams nearest to themselves in the ranking list at the end of the Championship or 18 VPs, whichever is the greater.

Ilan Shezifi,
Israel women team captain

[Walddk]

A few minutes ago I received an e-mail from Zvi Ben Tovim, President of the Israeli Bridge Federation. He has asked me to post the following in this thread:

I, herewith, attach my memorandum to the Delegates of the NBO's that participated in the EBL Congress held in Pau on 22/6/08, which I also read out and added a few sentences that are not included in the memorandum.

A short debate followed; it was clear to me that the Congress cannot decide on the matter. Nevertheless I found it necessary to raise the point in order to create some pressure on the Executive to discuss the matter further on.

In conversations in Pau I have pointed out that there are 3(!) non-European NBO's that are located in the Middle East and belong to the EBL (no participant in the Forums noticed that about 98% of Turkey is on the Asian continent. Let it be clear that we have no objection to Turkey's membership in the EBL).

As to Israel, I guess it is quite obvious why the EBL accepted us as a member of the EBL. We are in no position to advise the EBL Executive how to act, but we verbally hinted that in order to prevent mixing sports with politics, Lebanon can be transferred to Zone 4. My friend Mazahr Jaffri (president of BFAME) will be glad, I am sure, to accept them.

The problem is, as rumors say, that members of the Lebanese National Teams live in Paris and not in Beirut.

....

The IBF memorandum to follow below.

[Walddk]

22.6.2008

Memorandum to the EBL General Assembly
From the Israel Bridge Federation

On behalf of the IBF we would like to raise again the subject of matches of Lebanon vs. Israel in EBL Championships.

As you may well know, Lebanon does not show up to their matches against Israel.
Till now a draw has been made by which Israel meets Lebanon in the first match.
In the last 15-20 years Lebanon has never shown up using the excuse of late flights, etc.

This year the Lebanon women team was presented in the opening ceremony and the line-up form was filled up on time, but again no players from Lebanon have shown up at the table.

We have been told by the organizers that the captain of the team was prohibited, in a phone call to Beirut, to show up to this match. This means: a political refusal to compete against Israel.

We hereby draw your attention to the disciplinary code of these championships
and we quote from the introduction on page 41 :

"….In view of these principles, the statutes prohibit political, religious or racial discrimination and any violation of human rights by the NBOs."

"in order to guarantee ….. to deal with any breach of the principles in question…"
On page 42, the sanctions liable to be imposed by the EBL according to 32(h) of the Statues are listed.

We think that the results in Bridge should be decided at the Bridge table and therefore we propose to play against Lebanon at any time before the end of this championship.

If Lebanon turns down this proposition – we ask you to set the results of this match to 25:0.

In addition we ask you to impose the sanctions listed in the code and to find a solution to prevent this from happening again.



Zvi Ben Tovim ---- Gadi Leibovits
IBF President ---- Chairman IBF

[NickRW]

Walddk, on Jul 12 2008, 12:57 AM, said:

A few minutes ago I received an e-mail from Zvi Ben Tovim, President of the Israeli Bridge Federation. He has asked me to post the following in this thread:

<snip>

In conversations in Pau I have pointed out that there are 3(!) non-European NBO's that are located in the Middle East and belong to the EBL (no participant in the Forums noticed that about 98% of Turkey is on the Asian continent. Let it be clear that we have no objection to Turkey's membership in the EBL).

<more snip>

As a point of detail, Russia is also geographically more in Asia than it is in Europe.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that any country (Israel, Turkey, Lebanon or Russia) should be removed from the EBL on the grounds of geography - after all, each country has to be in one group or another.

Equally, there is no geographical reason for continuing with the current staus quo which is clearly an uneasy compromise.

Nick

[Fluffy]

Good point Nick

[benlessard]

Quote

Then why show up?

It's a long tournament, lots of rounds. Why not call in sick, take a round off, and relax for a day? It'll improve your score for the rest of the tournament, and you won't be penalized for it.

Quote

After that we can impose a penalty depending on the possible players responsability.

I meant that after the expected score we can put a X imps penalty.

In the 10 pages of post nobody expressed their position on what IMO is the most important part of the problem. Is the definiton of a team = country representative, a team clearly represent a country so that we are sanctionning the team and the country as a whole. Or a team = a group of players originating for a country that are selected by a process.

For example country K is at war and responsible for crimes vs humanity. country all over the world and ONU setup embargo and economics sanctions vs country K.despite knowing that the biggest impact will be the suffering of the population of K and not really toward the leaders. But the sanction is officially imposed on the country of K and their leading class as an entity.

But would they allow the players from K to participate at the olympics ?

[mike777]

"For example country K is at war and responsible for crimes vs humanity."


This is a huge claim for bridge to make...for anyone to make........"crimes against humanity"

Please keep in mind for most of history....most war crimes are not crimes
1) massive rape
2) massive pillage

Note Stalin killed milllions but no crime against humanity....
Note Mao killed millions but no crime against humanity....

I hope you see my point but I have my doubts

I bet many will want to see internet cites and quotes sigh.......
See endless papers and more proof.......


See endless forum posts where they kill the messenger.....sigh

I have repeated my point endless my most make no points........


NBO breaks..rules......for almost 14 years.....other NBO's say so...what....
membership of NBO's say ...so what?

(sorry I should just delete all of this because people will say
1) where are internet cites
2) who cares)










country all over the world and ONU setup embargo and economics sanctions vs country K.despite knowing that the biggest impact will be the suffering of the population of K and not really toward the leaders. But the sanction is officially imposed on the country of K and their leading class as an entity.

But would they allow the players from K to participate at the olympics ?

[NickRW]

benlessard, on Jul 18 2008, 07:14 AM, said:

In the 10 pages of post nobody expressed their position on what IMO is the most important part of the problem. Is the definiton of a team = country representative, a team clearly represent a country so that we are sanctionning the team and the country as a whole. Or a team = a group of players originating for a country that are selected by a process.

In this competition the players are representing their country. They are NOT, or certainly not in my opinion, just a bunch of players who happen to be from be from one country.

Nick

[benlessard]

Abit late but

Games hit by crisis over Iran-Israel contest

Monday, August 16, 2004

Iran's world judo champion Arash Miresmaeili refused to compete against an Israeli on Sunday, triggering a fresh crisis at the Olympic Games where race, creed or colour are not allowed to interfere with sport.

The International Judo Federation (IJF) failed to agree how to deal with the politically explosive issue at an emergency meeting and said it hold further talks on Monday.

The burning issue was whether any penalty would hit Miresmaeili alone or the entire Iranian team.

"There has been no decision and we are considering this situation very carefully," said IJF spokesman Michel Brousse.

"This has not been brought to us as an issue and until it is, we would not have any comment," said a spokeswoman for the International Olympic Committee (IOC), which pledges to uphold the ideal of sport transcending national barriers.

The official reason for Miresmaeili's non-appearance was failure to make the weight.

But judo chiefs were questioning how such a seasoned athlete, who carried Iran's flag at Friday's opening ceremony, would have made such a basic error.

A statement by the Iranian National Olympic Committee in Tehran suggested the real reason had nothing to do with kilos.

"This is a general policy of our country to refrain from competing against athletes of the Zionist regime and Arash Miresmaeili has observed this policy," it said.

Iran has refused to recognise Israel's right to exist since Islamic fundamentalists toppled the Shah in 1979.

Right after the draw was made last Thursday there were reports that Miresmaeili, 66kg world champion in 2001 and 2003, might pull out because his opponent was an Israeli, Ehud Vaks.

[benlessard]

Quote

Arash Miresmaili was the favourite for the gold medal in the 2004 Summer Olympics, where he was the flag bearer for Iran at the opening ceremonies. Slated to fight Israeli competitor Ehud Vaks in the first round, he was disqualified from competing because he was above the allowable weight limit for his class. It was claimed that Miresmaili deliberately set out to be disqualified rather than compete against an Israeli, which was interpreted from his own comments: "Although I have trained for months and was in good shape I refused to fight my Israeli opponent to sympathise with the suffering of the people of Palestine and I do not feel upset at all." [1] Comments from Iranian officials have somehow supported this view. The Iranian state news agency IRNA quoted then Iranian President Mohammad Khatami as saying that Miresmaeili's actions would be "recorded in the history of Iranian glories" and that the nation considered him to be "the champion of the 2004 Olympic Games." Iranian Olympic team chairman Nassrollah Sajadi told Shargh newspaper that the government should give the athlete $115,000 for his action, the amount the Iranian government awards gold medal winning athletes. [2] Then mayor of Tehran and current president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that though Miresmaeili "did not get a gold medal, he earned eternal honor by his refusal". [3] On September 8, 2004, Iran's official press agency announced the government had given him $125,000, the same amount awarded to Iran's two Athens gold medalists.[4]