[effervesce]

I've made a forcing pass system with

Pass = 13+ any
1C = 8-12, denies 5CM/6m/balanced
1D = 0-7 (8-9 if bal no 5M)
1H = 8-12, 5+ unbal
1S = 8-12, 5+ unbal
1NT = 10-12, may be 5M332
2C = 8-12, 6+
2D = 8-12, 6+
2H/2S = 8-9, 5M332
2NT = 8-12, 5+/5+ minors

The main reason for excluding balanced hands from 1C,1H,1S is that it simplifies the bidding afterwards, and makes the GF relays after 1C, 1M less space consuming (also, in general you prefer balanced hands relaying unbalanced hands, while with an unbalanced hand opposite a balanced hand you prefer to show your shape). Thus, in this system shape relays are available after every opening except 2D.

At the moment I'm currently using 1C - 1D/1H as transfers.

The current scheme after 1C:
1C - 1D
..... 1H = 3 hearts
..... 1S = 4 spades, 1-2 hearts
..... 1NT = 5 clubs, 4 diamonds, 1-2 hearts
..... 2C = 4 clubs, 5 diamonds, 1-2 hearts
..... 2D = good heart raise
..... 2H = poor heart raise.

1C - 1H
..... 1S = 3 spades
..... 1NT = 5 clubs, 4 diamonds, 0-2 spades
..... 2C = 4 clubs, 5 diamonds, 1-2 spades
..... 2D = 5 diamonds 4 hearts 1-2 spades
2H = good spade raise
2S = poor spade raise

The area I'd like suggestions for are for what bid to use as a GF relay, how to show hands with a minor suit, invitational, and minor suit, non-forcing.

For example, one possible scheme would be
1C - 1S as a transfer to 1NT
1C - 2x as natural non-forcing
1C-1S as transfer to 1NT, then bidding a minor as invitational
1C-1NT as GF relay

However, many other schemes could be used, simply because 1C is so defined there's not that many hand shapes, thus an example method is
1C - 1S transfer to clubs
1C - 1NT transfer to diamonds
1C - 2C minors
1C - 2D GF relay

Any suggestions/ideas/criticism/comments?

[gwnn]

2H/2S don't look very intelligent in current form, very small range and not necessarily sound anyway to require 5M332. Otherwise it's not a bad structure I think, especially 1♣, which resembles the 1♦ from classic symmetric relays, and which can lead to very intelligent auctions.

[the hog]

The 1D fert is too low - it doesn't take away enough bidding space. Make it 1H.

[effervesce]

gwnn, on Jun 26 2008, 09:33 PM, said:

2H/2S don't look very intelligent in current form, very small range and not necessarily sound anyway to require 5M332. Otherwise it's not a bad structure I think, especially 1♣, which resembles the 1♦ from classic symmetric relays, and which can lead to very intelligent auctions.

I believe Paul Marston had previously played 2M as 5M332 10-12 at a previous bermuda bowl. I think he later changed it to include 5M4m22 handshapes as well, but the purpose of putting them as 8-9 5M332 is to plug a hole.

For the same reason many precision players play 2D as 3 suited short diamonds. It's not a great bid, but it's there to cover a handshape that cannot be covered in other ways in the opening bid methods.

Now, if I plugged the 8-9 5M332 into the 1D fert, I could use 2H and 2S for other purposes. Weak twos of 4-7 HCP could be used I guess.

[akhare]

For what it's worth, here's the opening structure of the FP system that we (DrTodd and foobar) play:

P = 14+
1♣ = 9-13, 4+♥
1♦ = 9,13, 4+♠
1♥ = fert
1♠ = 9, 13, ♦s, no 4CM unless 5♦440
1N = 9 - 13, no 4CM unless 4333
2C = 9-13, no 4CM

We have (symmetric style) relays available over all openings and can resolve most common shapes below 3N (even 3♥ in many cases)...

[effervesce]

The_Hog, on Jun 26 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

The 1D fert is too low - it doesn't take away enough bidding space. Make it 1H.

Following that train of thought, why not make it 1♠? Then 1D can be 5+ hearts, 1H as 5+ spades. Bidding 1D-1H can therefore be the relay instead. There must be a point at which the risk: preemptive effect isn't worth it. Changing the fert to 1♠ non-vul may be worth it though, given the risk is least then, and having a GF relay of bidding the step less likely to be interfered.