BBO Discussion Forums: Close call - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Close call

#1 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-June-26, 03:45

Here is a close call I had yesterday, what would you do?

Matchpoints.

J10xxx
Axx
Jxx
xx

1NT - 2H
3S - ??

1NT showed 15-17. Although undiscussed, you are sure that partner would only superaccept with quite good hands, not with average hands that have 4-card support. Both partner and opponents are very strong players.

(You also suspect that partner would not use any other bids to superaccept since they are undiscussed)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#2 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-26, 04:33

I'd pass. This is still a balanced six-count. I found it quite hard to construct hands where game is good, unless I make my ♦J into a trick.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#3 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2008-June-26, 04:47

han, on Jun 26 2008, 04:45 AM, said:

Here is a close call I had yesterday, what would you do?
Matchpoints. ♠ J10xxx ♥ Axx ♦ Jxx ♣ xx
1NT - 2H
3S  - ??
1NT showed 15-17. Although undiscussed, you are sure that partner would only superaccept with quite good hands, not with average hands that have 4-card support. Both partner and opponents are very strong players.
(You also suspect that partner would not use any other bids to superaccept since they are undiscussed)
IMO _P = 10, 3N = 7, 4S = 6.
Harder problem at teams.
0

#4 User is offline   Sambolino 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 173
  • Joined: 2005-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgrade, Serbia

Posted 2008-June-26, 04:48

at mp or imp nv i'd pass in a split of a second
0

#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-June-26, 05:59

If partner has seven cover cards, he could have super-accepted above 3♠.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#6 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,725
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2008-June-26, 06:33

nige1, on Jun 26 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

han, on Jun 26 2008, 04:45 AM, said:

Here is a close call I had yesterday, what would you do?
Matchpoints. ♠ J10xxx ♥ Axx ♦ Jxx ♣ xx
1NT - 2H
3S   - ??
1NT showed 15-17. Although undiscussed, you are sure that partner would only superaccept with quite good hands, not with average hands that have 4-card support. Both partner and opponents are very strong players.
(You also suspect that partner would not use any other bids to superaccept since they are undiscussed)
IMO _P = 10, 3N = 7, 4S = 6.
Harder problem at teams.

Many people play that 3NT is some type of conventional Spade raise.
This might have an impact on your scoring

I suspect that I would pass at MPs
Alderaan delenda est
0

#7 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-26, 06:35

Partner is limited by his failure to bid Exclusion.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#8 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,401
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2008-June-26, 07:26

gnasher, on Jun 26 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

Partner is limited by his failure to bid Exclusion.

Right, and by his failure to open 7NT.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#9 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2008-June-26, 08:07

nige1, on Jun 26 2008, 05:47 PM, said:

han, on Jun 26 2008, 04:45 AM, said:

Here is a close call I had yesterday, what would you do?
Matchpoints. ♠ J10xxx ♥ Axx ♦ Jxx ♣ xx
1NT - 2H
3S  - ??
1NT showed 15-17. Although undiscussed, you are sure that partner would only superaccept with quite good hands, not with average hands that have 4-card support. Both partner and opponents are very strong players.
(You also suspect that partner would not use any other bids to superaccept since they are undiscussed)
IMO _P = 10, 3N = 7, 4S = 6.
Harder problem at teams.

Imo P = 10, 3N = 0, 4S = 7.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#10 User is offline   andy_h 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,962
  • Joined: 2007-September-14
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:The Universe, Traveling, Squash, and Scandinavia.

Posted 2008-June-26, 08:35

gnasher, on Jun 26 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

I'd pass. This is still a balanced six-count. I found it quite hard to construct hands where game is good, unless I make my ♦J into a trick.

Agree
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
0

#11 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-June-26, 09:53

I pass too, although it helps to know what kind of super accepts you play. If pard had a doubleton heart, I might want to go on.

This is the kind of game where you might make if pard isn't too strong in spades. ♠AKQx is very bad.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#12 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-June-26, 11:40

pclayton, on Jun 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

I pass too, although it helps to know what kind of super accepts you play. If pard had a doubleton heart, I might want to go on.

This is the kind of game where you might make if pard isn't too strong in spades. ♠AKQx is very bad.

You need seven covers. A doubleton can provide one, meaning that you now need six. Ace-fourth in trumps probably is two covers also, so now you need four additional covers. A trick source might provide some additional covers somewhere as well.

But, won't partner insist with that massive of a hand? I mean, if partner can look at his hand and realize that he has seven potential covers opposite a flat 5332, shouldn't he re-assess and bid something like 3NT or 4♠ as his "super-acceptance?" Or, make up a super-acceptance below 3♠ planning to accept any whisper bid at all?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#13 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-June-26, 11:59

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 09:40 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jun 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

I pass too, although it helps to know what kind of super accepts you play. If pard had a doubleton heart, I might want to go on.

This is the kind of game where you might make if pard isn't too strong in spades. ♠AKQx is very bad.

You need seven covers. A doubleton can provide one, meaning that you now need six. Ace-fourth in trumps probably is two covers also, so now you need four additional covers. A trick source might provide some additional covers somewhere as well.

But, won't partner insist with that massive of a hand? I mean, if partner can look at his hand and realize that he has seven potential covers opposite a flat 5332, shouldn't he re-assess and bid something like 3NT or 4♠ as his "super-acceptance?" Or, make up a super-acceptance below 3♠ planning to accept any whisper bid at all?

Can a 1N opening ever insist on game opposite a simple transfer?
"Phil" on BBO
0

#14 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-June-26, 13:24

pclayton, on Jun 26 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Can a 1N opening ever insist on game opposite a simple transfer?

Sure.

♠KQ10xx ♥xx ♦AK109 ♣Ax, if you would open 1NT.

♠A109x ♥xx ♦AKJ10x ♣Ax

Stuff like that.

If a hand does not exist where one would force game, then Responder has no problem.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#15 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-26, 13:50

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

♠KQ10xx ♥xx ♦AK109 ♣Ax, if you would open 1NT.

♠A109x ♥xx ♦AKJ10x ♣Ax

We are talking about a bid that shows 15-17 Miltons and a balanced hand, aren't we?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#16 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-June-26, 13:51

I would pass this at MP and bid game at imps.
0

#17 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-June-26, 14:03

gnasher, on Jun 26 2008, 02:50 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

♠KQ10xx ♥xx ♦AK109 ♣Ax, if you would open 1NT.

♠A109x ♥xx ♦AKJ10x ♣Ax

We are talking about a bid that shows 15-17 Miltons and a balanced hand, aren't we?

Yes. We are.

What hand do you want Opener to have for game to be a good call? I think it has to be a hand that stretches the parameters on 1NT openings.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#18 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-26, 16:58

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

What hand do you want Opener to have for game to be a good call? I think it has to be a hand that stretches the parameters on 1NT openings.

I don't want, or believe, there to be any hand where it's right for opener to drive game facing a transfer to 2♠. I thought it was you that said such hands exist?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#19 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-June-26, 17:36

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

pclayton, on Jun 26 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Can a 1N opening ever insist on game opposite a simple transfer?

Sure.

♠KQ10xx ♥xx ♦AK109 ♣Ax, if you would open 1NT.

♠A109x ♥xx ♦AKJ10x ♣Ax

Stuff like that.

If a hand does not exist where one would force game, then Responder has no problem.

Wow. Considering we haven't shown a single honor in our hand it seems to me abrupt to be bidding game with these hands opposite a potential yarb.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#20 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-June-26, 21:16

gnasher, on Jun 26 2008, 05:58 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Jun 26 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

What hand do you want Opener to have for game to be a good call?  I think it has to be a hand that stretches the parameters on 1NT openings.

I don't want, or believe, there to be any hand where it's right for opener to drive game facing a transfer to 2♠. I thought it was you that said such hands exist?

I agree. There is no hand where one would want to force game after a transfer while holding a 1NT opening. That is, unless Opener really should not have opened 1NT.

My point is that Responder needs THAT hand to make game. If Opener did have THAT hand, then he is the one who must show this absurdly powerful hand by bidding past 3♠.

BTW -- I like a one-under super-accept to show THAT hand, actually.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users