[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Jun 19 2008, 04:25 AM, said:

Pass, but I know a LOT of very very good players who think the right style is to open 3 NV (3 weaker than 2). To me this is crazy but there must be merit to this style given how many advocate it (and I see 655321 is among them).

My partner would open this 3H first in NV against V, but I don't think he would do it on this hand at love all.

[hotShot]

Doesn't some SO's require 3 HCP for an opening?

[helene_t]

Jlall, on Jun 19 2008, 04:25 AM, said:

Pass, but I know a LOT of very very good players who think the right style is to open 3 NV (3 weaker than 2). To me this is crazy but there must be merit to this style given how many advocate it (and I see 655321 is among them).

I do this in one partnership at favorable. We got the idea from Ed Hoogekamp's book. But I am not convinced it is such a good idea in general. It is only in 1st seat at IMPs that I really feel good about it.

[ArtK78]

With one partner, I play light openings 1st & 2nd seat NONVUL. 10-12 1NT, 10 HCP opening bids. Weak 2s are 3-9 and may be on any 5 cards.

Even with these agreements, this hand is not good enough to open a weak 2 bid.

[FrancesHinden]

hotShot, on Jun 19 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

Doesn't some SO's require 3 HCP for an opening?

Not mine.
(What a silly rule)

[brianshark]

Add a king to the heart suit and it becomes a minimum weak 2 (playing normal weak 2 / pre-empt style).

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Jun 19 2008, 07:54 AM, said:

hotShot, on Jun 19 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

Doesn't some SO's require 3 HCP for an opening?

Not mine.
(What a silly rule)

Marty Bergen used to wreak havoc when playing pro in the 1980s (I think.. it may have been earlier) by opening weak two bids on hands that make one shudder. He was often playing on teams with a weak sponsor, so I guess he felt the need to shake things up.

Jxxxx was not uncommon and I think I saw one hand in the BW where he did it on Jxxx.

This disturbed the powers that be.. presumably they felt that he was making a mockery of the game. And it wasn't easy to penalize these flights of fancy, because often times BOTH opponents had length and strength in his suit, so neither could double for takeout, and have it converted.

This gave rise to the Marty Bergen Rule: the ACBL stipulated that it was illegal to open a weak two bid without at least 5 hcp and at least 5 cards in the suit.

I have always been impressed by this: one player, all by himself, got a major rule change designed to prevent him playing his game the way he wanted to.

BTW, he was not hiding anything... all players at the table knew his methods, and he did this at the highest levels, so he wasn't out rabbit-hunting.

[Apollo81]

On paper it's too weak, but there are certainly situations where I'd do it anyway.

[pclayton]

hotShot, on Jun 19 2008, 01:53 AM, said:

Doesn't some SO's require 3 HCP for an opening?

Crap, I have to pass J-T-10th and out.

Otherwise Memphis will send me to that gulag in Lima.....

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

No.

Make it green vs. red and we may start talking,
although it is still to weak, make it 3rd seat and I
may be willing to reconsider as well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[awm]

It may be worth mentioning that while everything Mikeh said about Marty Bergen and the "5 and 5" rule was true at the time, this rule has not been in effect in ACBL for a number of years.

There are still some restrictions against four-card weak two bids and weak two bids with a very wide range (generally the follow-up methods are restricted, not the openings) but a weak two with a range of 4-10 or 3-9 is totally legal by today's rules.

[gerry]

wouldnt hesitate

[han]

I would pass. I would happily open if our agreement was to open very weak weak 2's though.

[y66]

Playing wide-ranging preempts, I would not feel compelled to open this 2H. Would prolly do it most times tho.

Give me

2
QT9832
32
5432

and I would be compelled.