BBO Discussion Forums: umm...what? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

umm...what?

#1 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:01

imps:

x xx AQJxx AKJxx

1S p 2D
2H p 3C
3H p 3N
5S p ?

2D GF, 3C natural.
0

#2 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:04

I think its a 6-5 or 7-5 that is just too good for 4♠:

AKJxxx AKJxx x x

Right or wrong, I'm bidding 6N.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#3 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:08

Why is that hand worth more than 4♠?

Anyway, yeah some 65 or 75 should be it. We cover the side losers, but will that be enough?? I don't think so. PASS.
0

#4 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:09

whereagles, on May 19 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

Why is that hand worth more than 4♠?

Anyway, yeah some 65 or 75 should be it. We cover the side losers, but will that be enough?? I don't think so. PASS.

I don't know, because you'd bid it the same without both major suit kings?
"Phil" on BBO
0

#5 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:14

Phil, this is a huge misfit, despite the combined high hcp count. What matters now is to find a playable spot and leave considerations of extra strength 'n stuff to the post mortem.

This doesn't mean you should never try for a slam, but, if you do that, you'd better bid only what's in front of you. In this case this would mean

AKJT9x
AQJT9
x
x

or thereabouts.
0

#6 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:21

A slam-forcing 6-5 or 7-5.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#7 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:32

gnasher, on May 19 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

A slam-forcing 6-5 or 7-5.

Why is it slam forcing? I think it sucks if partner's only options are to bid 4S which could just be a 9 count or force to slam. Surely with a slam force he can bid something else (like 5N or 6S or 6H). Maybe this gives up on some precision when he has a slam force but it at least gives him some option with a good but not slam forcing hand which is probably more common and more important.
0

#8 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:37

whereagles, on May 19 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

Phil, this is a huge misfit, despite the combined high hcp count. What matters now is to find a playable spot and leave considerations of extra strength 'n stuff to the post mortem.

This doesn't mean you should never try for a slam, but, if you do that, you'd better bid only what's in front of you. In this case this would mean

AKJT9x
AQJT9
x
x

or thereabouts.

Nuno your argument is totally besides the point. How can opener possibly call AJxxxx AJxxx x x the same as AKJxxx AKJxx? I don't care if its a misfit or not - both responder and opener have extra values and 6N has to be real close. I agree a stray 10 here and there in any suit is a big help.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#9 User is offline   hotShot 

  • Axxx Axx Axx Axx
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,976
  • Joined: 2003-August-31
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:47

Some people I play with use the jump to 5(trumps) to ask about trump top honors.
0 trump honors => pass
1 trump honors => slam
2 trump honors => grand
0

#10 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,035
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:50

I think that opener has to have a better hand than Phil's minimum, since that hand has no 5-level safety on the auction.

AKJ10xx AKJxx x x is the worst hand I can come up with.. remember, you haven't promised both minor aces... x x AKJxxx KQJxx is entirely plausible, is it not?

Can he have AKQxxx AKQxx x x? No... even for me, that looks like a 2♣ opener. Note that even this monster isn't cold for any slam... altho I'd like my chances

I don't see any construction on which slam is a good proposition unless he has a minor honour, but I don't think that is probable, given that he has 11 or 12 cards in the majors. So I pass

I think he was hoping either for 2=1 in the majors or a major Q.. I have neither.

BTW, I hate 6N.. where are the tricks coming from on the hand I posited? Yes, if you are a happy and successful hooker, than by all means bid 6N. But I think it likely to be a less than 50% contract. 5♠ rates to muddle through
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#11 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-May-19, 11:56

mikeh, on May 19 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

Yes, if you are a happy and successful hooker

Must...resist...inappropriate...jokes...
0

#12 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-May-19, 12:08

Sorry Phil, don't quite agree. Misfit slams are a matter of TRICKS, not hcp. In both your examples, AJxxxx AJxxx x x and AKJxxx AKJxx x x, those tricks just aren't there.

By the way, I'd probably pass 3NT on the weaker hand. I'll have a hard time making 4♠. Better pass and hope my 2 aces are the bullets that pard needs to wrap-up 9 tricks in NT. Gimme a 7th spade (say same hcps, 7510) and I might just try 4♠. Only just :)
0

#13 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,465
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2008-May-19, 12:12

What would

1S----2D
3H show ?

if its natural then my guess is that 5S show a strong 75- with a big disparity between the S and the H.

AKQJxxx
KT9xx
x

If 3H would have been a splinter then i guess 5S show a 75 that is too strong for 4S.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
0

#14 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-May-19, 15:45

I bid 6♠, if they lead a major then we have major transportation issues in 6NT, which I don't see making without the spades anyway. I already talked to Justin about this hand, I raise since I have both aces and expect one to be working and hope that's enough. If I had 0 or 1 aces I would pass.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#15 User is online   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 18,422
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-May-19, 15:51

Very tough. I would have bid 5nt, passing the buck back to partner.
0

#16 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-May-19, 16:18

mike777, on May 19 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

Very tough. I would have bid 5nt, passing the buck back to partner.

OS5NT always looks good in this situation.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#17 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,236
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-May-19, 16:30

6H.

What do I know, but I wont pass 5S.
Maybe 5NT is best, partner should pick
the suit he likes best.

If a doubleton is enough, partner will pass
6H, if he has a selfsufficient spade suit, he
still can convert.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#18 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-May-20, 00:36

Jlall, on May 19 2008, 06:32 PM, said:

gnasher, on May 19 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

A slam-forcing 6-5 or 7-5.

Why is it slam forcing?

Sorry - that was nonsense. I was thinking of sequences where 5♠ might force a preference to 6♥, but this isn't one of those.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users