[gwnn]

Someone opens 3NT gambling, denying or generally denying A's and K's.

What do you play the following bids?

3NT-X
3NT-4m

-What you play 3rd seat's p, XX, 4m bids?
-Suppose 3rd seat does a p/c move (whatever that is, p, XX or 4m). What does 4th hand need in order to take action?

[gnasher]

I prefer to play:

  Double = strong balanced or strongish three-suited
  4♣ = major + minor
  4♦ = majors

The double sets up a forcing pass. After (3NT) dbl (4m):
  Double = to defend, even opposite the three-suiter
  Pass = to play game (somewhere) opposite the three-suiter. With a balanced hand, the doubler doubles again; if three-suited he usually bids the next suit.

I don't have sufficient data to know how well this works.

[MFA]

I play 4♣=good both majors, 4♦=bad both majors.

[FrancesHinden]

gwnn, on May 19 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

Someone opens 3NT gambling, denying or generally denying A's and K's.

What do you play the following bids?

3NT-X
3NT-4m

-What you play 3rd seat's p, XX, 4m bids?
-Suppose 3rd seat does a p/c move (whatever that is, p, XX or 4m). What does 4th hand need in order to take action?

I play

- Double as strong, does not set up a forcing pass, subsequent double from either side is take-out

- Pass them double shape suitable lightish take-out

- 4m as natural, although I fully agree that having at least one major two-suiter to show is probably better, it's just never been high enough on our list of things to discuss

In third seat:

Pass = to play
XX = to play, sets up a forcing pass
4m = as without the intervention (4C p/c, 4D singleton ask)

After 3NT x P or 3NT x xx 4th hand bids with a lot of shape, passes on a balanced hand, high cards are irrelevant (well, with a lot of high cards you would pass of course)

After 3NT P p/c move you are effectively in the same position as a 4m pre-empt, although protected that RHO can't be that strong, so pretty much whatever you needed to act over that.

[whereagles]

1. Everybody seems to have his pet methods. I like this:

(3NT) dbl = bal, 16+
(3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis of hearts
(3NT) 4♦ = majors, emphasis of spades


2. Similar:
3NT (dbl) pass = to play
3NT (dbl) 4♣ = pass/correct
3NT (dbl) rdbl = let's go get them


3. Messy situation, usually sorted out by meta-rules and good luck. Guidelines are:

Suit = natural (you can play transfers if you want)
Pass + pull dbl = slam try, I guess.
Dbl/rdbl = cards

[FrancesHinden]

I'm surprised how many people want to use two bids to show both majors.
RHO has shown a single-suited (usually minor) hand. Isn't it more important to be able to show as many hand types as possible, than to use both 4C and 4D to show major 2-suiters (and double-then-bid may also be both majors)?

If they open 3C we're a level lower, yet most people don't have three different ways of showing a major 2-suiter.

It's a useful hand-type to be able to show, so perhaps one bid to show it is a good idea, but I prefer either justin (4D = natural) or gnasher (major 2-suiter/major-minor 2-suiter).

p.s. no-one has mentioned what a 4NT overcall shows, but I bet it isn't both minors.

[whereagles]

FrancesHinden, on May 19 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

p.s. no-one has mentioned what a 4NT overcall shows, but I bet it isn't both minors.

If 3NT = ANY suit, then 4NT = minors

If 3NT = minor suit only, then.. how about 4NT = 10-11 tricks in the other minor + a major?

[jdonn]

I'm sure we have discussed this. Many people split up 4♣ and 4♦ to both show majors. Some do better hearts / better spades, some do bid your better minor, some do worse hand (nf pass) / better hand (f pass), etc. The two main important points are to have at least one way to show majors, and to make sure you know your agreement. I'm sure this situation (of the 3NT opening and the desire to show majors in combination, and your exact agreement making a difference) is so rare that it just doesn't matter as long as you know what you're doing.

[hotShot]

FrancesHinden, on May 19 2008, 06:18 PM, said:

I'm surprised how many people want to use two bids to show both majors.
RHO has shown a single-suited (usually minor) hand. Isn't it more important to be able to show as many hand types as possible, than to use both 4C and 4D to show major 2-suiters (and double-then-bid may also be both majors)?

The 3 NT-opener should hold all 10 HCP in his suit, if one of our partnership has a single/void in that suit, a slam/grand is possible with combined twenty-something HCP.
It's impossible/ difficult to find bids for all suit combinations and to include save slam bidding at the same time.

[helene_t]

We play multi-landy.