[DrTodd13]

Scoring: MP

---

North opens a 15+, artificial 1♣.
You bid 1♦, 0-8.
West doubles.
North bids 1N.
East bids 2♠.

Your call?

[han]

What was double? What's our agreement for 1NT, do we just ignore the double?

[Halo]

3♥

Edit: it's a poll so I guess I should add some reasoning. I have a fair hand with a six card suit: partner appears to have diamonds, so I restrain my enthusiam and bid three rather than four.

[DrTodd13]

han, on May 9 2008, 01:03 PM, said:

What was double? What's our agreement for 1NT, do we just ignore the double?

Double was showing ♦. 1N is some non-minimum NT shape with a ♦ stop. We have XX available to show 19+. So, I expected 1N is 17 or 18.

[ArtK78]

Another relevant question - what is a 2♥ response to 1♣? In many strong club systems, it shows a long suit with less than a positive response.

I would bid 3♥ now without any problem. I have excellent playing strength for a hand that has announced 0-8 HCP.

I would bid 4♥ if I had a 7th heart, but that begs the question of what would a 2♥ or 3♥ bid have meant on the first round of bidding.

[DrTodd13]

Halo, on May 9 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

3♥

Edit: it's a poll so I guess I should add some reasoning. I have a fair hand with a six card suit: partner appears to have diamonds, so I restrain my enthusiam and bid three rather than four.

We were playing leb so 3♥ is game forcing but presumably not sure ♥ is the trump suit or looking for something more than game but that is hard to imagine given lack of opener's XX and responder 0-8.

[DrTodd13]

ArtK78, on May 9 2008, 01:10 PM, said:

Another relevant question - what is a 2♥ response to 1♣? In many strong club systems, it shows a long suit with less than a positive response.

I would bid 3♥ now without any problem. I have excellent playing strength for a hand that has announced 0-8 HCP.

I would bid 4♥ if I had a 7th heart, but that begs the question of what would a 2♥ or 3♥ bid have meant on the first round of bidding.

Immediate 2♥ would have been 9+ with 4♠ and 5+♦.

[ArtK78]

Why would you play Lebensohl in this context? You have already limited your hand to 0-8 HCP. Presumably, you wouldn't take a call with 0-3 HCP in this situation, so you must be showing the upper end of your range by bidding.

[awm]

4♥ seems normal. Might be better to transfer at the four-level if such is available.

We have a lot of shape and a well-placed spade king, and partner has shown more than a strong notrump. Obviously one can construct partner hands where game is poor, but assuming LHO has a lot of the diamond cards and RHO a lot of the spade cards I think we are odds on to make.

[Halo]

DrTodd13, on May 9 2008, 04:10 PM, said:

Halo, on May 9 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

3♥

Edit: it's a poll so I guess I should add some reasoning.  I have a fair hand with a six card suit:  partner appears to have diamonds, so I restrain my enthusiam and bid three rather than four.

We were playing leb so 3♥ is game forcing but presumably not sure ♥ is the trump suit or looking for something more than game but that is hard to imagine given lack of opener's XX and responder 0-8.

OK

So move my vote to 4H (I should have read the options more closely.)

I sympathise with a poster who is bombarded with questions. Gt on with it!

[DrTodd13]

ArtK78, on May 9 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

Why would you play Lebensohl in this context? You have already limited your hand to 0-8 HCP. Presumably, you wouldn't take a call with 0-3 HCP in this situation, so you must be showing the upper end of your range by bidding.

Why lose the ability to differentiate 4-6 versus 7-8?

[cherdano]

awm, on May 9 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

4♥ seems normal. Might be better to transfer at the four-level if such is available.

I disagree, it is often helpful to keep the hand with shape and a void hidden. How should RHO know to shift to a club rather than a diamond at trick 2?

[ArtK78]

DrTodd13, on May 9 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

ArtK78, on May 9 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

Why would you play Lebensohl in this context?  You have already limited your hand to 0-8 HCP.  Presumably, you wouldn't take a call with 0-3 HCP in this situation, so you must be showing the upper end of your range by bidding.

Why lose the ability to differentiate 4-6 versus 7-8?

If you believe that the difference between 4-6 and 7-8 HCP on this auction is critical, then by all means use Lebehsohl. I don't believe it is that critical, and Lebensohl auctions are always tricky. In the auction presented, there is a good chance that LHO will bid over 2NT if it is used in this sequence, and South will never have an opportunity to show his hand.

I have never seen Lebensohl used in a situation where responder had already limited his hand so severly as in this situation. I would have to experiment with the method to see if it is optimal. I suspect not, but I have no experience with it.

[jtfanclub]

I have no call for an invitational hand with hearts?!

Don't you think that's going to be pretty common with this auction? What would 3♠ show here? 2NT followed by 3♠? I'm not familiar enough with Lebensohl, I guess.

If there's a call that shows 4-6 with hearts, I'll take it. Otherwise, I'll just bid 4♥.

[awm]

cherdano, on May 9 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

awm, on May 9 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

4♥ seems normal. Might be better to transfer at the four-level if such is available.

I disagree, it is often helpful to keep the hand with shape and a void hidden. How should RHO know to shift to a club rather than a diamond at trick 2?

What I really don't want is LHO pushing a club through. If I bid 4♥ myself, then LHO is on opening lead (chance to push a club through, although he will often lead spades or from a diamond sequence). If I transfer to hearts, then LHO can't really even get the lead, and there is also the possibility of RHO leading a diamond at trick one into a possible tenace in partner's hand.

Anyways, playing 4♥ from my side RHO can see the dummy's minor suit holdings at trick two. Chances are dummy holds a tenace in at least one suit, and RHO's best defense is to switch to the other suit (regardless of which minor it is; forcing my hand could easily be the best defense).

[han]

Halo, on May 9 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

I sympathise with a poster who is bombarded with questions. Gt on with it!

LOL

Don't you think it is relevant to know what the double means? Most people I know play that this double shows the majors which would be very relevant and would explain the extremely weird timing of the 2S bid. Who passes over a strong 2C bid and then bids 2S over a diamond showing double?

I don't know the system now but I would normally bid 3D showing hearts and pass 3H.

[DrTodd13]

Yes, the 2♠ has pretty strange timing. I'm wondering if she thought the X was for majors. If she thought that, she should have alerted. I suspect she might have thought that because she had less length that you might expect in ♠.

Out of curiosity, if it goes 1N (15-17) and you hold this hand, do you think out of 7 tables you aren't going to get anybody in 4♥? How many tables would you think are going to transfer to 2 and not even invite?

[han]

DrTodd13, on May 9 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, if it goes 1N (15-17) and you hold this hand, do you think out of 7 tables you aren't going to get anybody in 4♥? How many tables would you think are going to transfer to 2 and not even invite?

In an average club roughly 0 pairs are going to be in game, but partner might have 18, and I don't pay too much attention to what the field does anyway. Still, I would not force to game with this hand.

[jdonn]

DrTodd13, on May 9 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, if it goes 1N (15-17) and you hold this hand, do you think out of 7 tables you aren't going to get anybody in 4♥? How many tables would you think are going to transfer to 2 and not even invite?

I would invite, but at most clubs I've been to I would expect signing off to be a huge majority action.

[Apollo81]

4♥