[effervesce]

skaeran, on May 15 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 14 2008, 04:56 PM, said:

ArtK78, on May 14 2008, 06:40 AM, said:

Free, on May 14 2008, 08:32 AM, said:

gnasher, on May 14 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

ArtK78, on May 13 2008, 07:10 PM, said:

Asking for the ♠Q is wonderful, as long as you have an agreement that it doesn't promise all of the key cards.

I'm surprised that you think that needs agreement. Does anyone play that a queen ask below five of the trump suit promises all the key cards?

I have never played it this way. You can find beautiful slams with a keycard outside, or stay out of slams when you miss a keycard and the Queen of trumps... I never understood why some would require all keycards for a Queen-ask.

We have had this discussion before. The position that I take - that the Queen Ask guarantees possession of all 5 key cards - is an old view that appears to be in the minority today.

But that was not my main point. Bidding 4NT on this hand is too much.

Art - I'm one of the old schoolers here too, but I've never heard of this either. What pray tell do you do with a hand that is missing one key but only needs the trump Q after a 5♣ / 5♦ call?

If we have all the keys and are only missing the trump Queen, we can figure out seven later as kings are automatically shown with the trump Q.

Having played RKCB for I don't know how long, I've not ever come across anyone playing or suggesting that the queen ask promises all 5 keycards.

And I can't envisage playing that. Asking about the trump queen to decide whether to stop at the 5-level or bid slam obviously is far more frequent than the grand slam hands. Besides, there's not a single problem playing it not promising all 5 keys...

well.... if you RKCB (not kickback) for a minor...

[ArtK78]

I quoted this article in a prior thread in which we discussed whether the queen ask after the first response to RKCB promised possession of all 5 key cards. I present this not because it is authoritative but to demonstrate that, despite protestations to the contrary, there is a school of thought that says that any move beyond the first response to RKCB is a grand slam try guaranteeing possession of all 5 key cards.

Here is a section of the discussion of Roman Key Card Blackwood by The Bridge Guys:

This method has the greater advantage than using the possible bid of 5 No Trump simply as conventional Blackwood or as Roman Key Card Blackwood and the feature of cuebidding, as in the first school of thought.

In the following example:

North South

1♣ - 1♠

4♠ - 4 NT

5♣ - 5♦

North has informed his partner that he holds three Key Cards. However, since North can not show with his bid whether he has the Queen of trump or not, this remains an unknown factor. When South bids 5 Diamonds, the next higher-ranking suit, South is informing his partner that the partnership holds all five Key Cards, but does not possess the Queen of trump. South's bid of 5 Diamonds is asking North to bid the number of Kings he holds, and is asking North at the same time whether or not he holds the Queen of trump. In the case that the next higher-ranking suit is the trump suit, the initiator of the Roman Key Card Blackwood may not bid the trump suit as the next higher-ranking suit to ask for Kings and the possession of the Queen of trump. The reasoning behind this is that if the initiator of the Roman Key Card Blackwood bids the trump suit, then that is the final contract, because the small slam can not be made. It becomes the escape bid. The following example should make this clear.

There are a number of items in this article that one could criticize. But that is not the point. The point is that there are players out there (and I am one of them) who play that the queen ask guarantees possession of all of the key cards.

I am not trying to convince you that what I do is better than what you do. Just that there are a variety of ways of dealing with these situations. My method is very playable. Your method is probably playable as well (it does seem that a majority does not play the guarantee all the key cards method). However, I leave you with one thought: The bridge literature abounds with RKCB disasters. Putting more ambiguity into RKCB auctions increases the likelihood for further disasters.