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Maybe it's obvious

#1 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 17:30

r/r imps Axx - AK9xx AKJT8

3♥ p p ?

Two questions. What would you do? And if you double, what is your plan over 3♠, 3NT, or 4♠ by partner?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 18:24

I think an intiial x is clear, since we are getting rich if partner can sit.

Over 3♠, I guess I am out of ways to show the minors, so I will unhappily bid 4♦.
Over 3NT, I will just pass.
Over 4♠, I think I will just bid 6♠. This might not make, but I am never really going to seven, and I don't see any way to stop short of slam.
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#3 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 18:50

jdonn, on Apr 29 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

r/r imps Axx - AK9xx AKJT8

3♥ p p ?

Two questions. What would you do? And if you double, what is your plan over 3♠, 3NT, or 4♠ by partner?

Double then 4♥ over 3♠ or 3NT. Over 4♠ I'll bid 5NT pick a slam, then I think I will raise to grand. Not an easy problem, maybe someone else has a better idea.
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#4 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 19:16

Apollo81, on Apr 29 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

Over 4♠ I'll bid 5NT pick a slam,

It's not grand slam force?
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#5 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-29, 19:29

Not obvious at all, I guess you have to start with a double but you have no idea what to do over any bid from partner. Looking at them:

Over 3S your options are:

Pass- way too conservative with a hand that has this much potential.

4 of a minor- Shows a strong hand with that minor and likely spade tolerance, thats not a bad description but it overstates the minor you're bidding. And which minor are you supposed to bid? I guess 4C allows partner to bid diamonds if he happens to have 4 of them and allows partner to rebid spades with 5, and if partner passes you you'd rather be in clubs. You understate your playing strength a little with this auction as well

4H- slam try for spades, this seems like an overstatement on spades and values.

4S- seems right if you're going to raise spades (as opposed to 4H) but overstates your spades slightly. Still it might be a good hand for a 4-3 and it doesn't risk playing a ridiculous 4 of a minor.

Overall I guess I would bid a slightly weird 4C.

If partner bids 3N of course you could pass but that seems like a position. I don't know what 4H is supposed to mean, I guess minors makes sense but maybe partner would take it as a strong 40(45) trying to get to the right spot. 4H seems fine and if partner bids 4S I'll pull it to 5C so he should get the message. Slam and 5 of a minor seem more likely than 3N to me.

Over 4S I have a great hand but it's unclear which suit to play so I agree with 5N pick a slam and give up on 7.
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#6 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 19:31

Apollo81, on Apr 29 2008, 05:50 PM, said:

Over 4♠ I'll bid 5NT pick a slam, then I think I will raise to grand.

I agree with 5NT if it's pick a slam, but I am not sure at all that this is standard here. Like TimG, I think GSF may be more commonly interpreted, since spades is the only strain we have clearly offered.
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-29, 19:36

rogerclee, on Apr 29 2008, 08:31 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 29 2008, 05:50 PM, said:

Over 4♠ I'll bid 5NT pick a slam, then I think I will raise to grand.

I agree with 5NT if it's pick a slam, but I am not sure at all that this is standard here. Like TimG, I think GSF may be more commonly interpreted, since spades is the only strain we have clearly offered.

I would assume all of my expert pards would know by now that GSF has almost no utility at all, and that you can almost always bid 4N keycard or just start with 5H clearly agreeing spades and hope to bid 5N later, and if you cannot (ie partner jumped again to slam) that partner must have the 2 top honors you're missing since you apparantly have everything else.

On the other hand it is very common that we Xed with a great hand and only 3 (or even 2) spades and once partner jumped we know we have enough for slam and want to find the right fit.
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#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 19:52

I think the rule on GSF that I'm sure my partners and I agree on, even undiscussed, is that it only applies if it's the only possible meaning, like 1♠ p 5NT. If pick a slam is at all possible then it clearly applies. So I'm sure on the auction being discussed that's what it would be.

I note even if partner takes 5NT there as GSF on this hand, that might turn out ok!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 20:13

I hate this hand. But, I think I'm going to make the one call partner can understand completely. 5NT.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-April-30, 01:26

Jlall, on Apr 30 2008, 02:29 AM, said:

Not obvious at all, I guess you have to start with a double
[..]
Over 3S your options are:
[..]
4H- slam try for spades

I think 4H, and all similar cue bids, should offer a choice of games. It's fairly rare to have enough to bid game on this sort of auction, let alone make a slam try.

In this case, the cue bid would suggest only three spades, together with one or two alternative strains.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-April-30, 03:55

I think I'll balance with 4NT. Just out of feeling, nothing else.
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