[guesser]

In standard, without intervention 1D-1S;2C-2S shows 100% a 6-card suit
In precision does it also show 6 cards?
Thanks for your answer.

[helene_t]

If anything the indication of a 6-card is stronger in Precision since many awkward hands could have passed 2♣.

[jtfanclub]

In every form of Precision I know, a bid of 2♣ denies 3 card support.
So IMHO there's never a reason to bid 2♠ here with only 5.
Well, if partner wanted to call AKQJx a 6 card suit I guess I wouldn't object.

[effervesce]

jtfanclub, on May 3 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

In every form of Precision I know, a bid of 2♣ denies 3 card support.
So IMHO there's never a reason to bid 2♠ here with only 5.
Well, if partner wanted to call AKQJx a 6 card suit I guess I wouldn't object.

Well, awm plays 1♦ as 0+, as do I, and thus for us 1♦ then 2♣ doesnt deny 3 spades (3145/3154 possible). Still, compared to standard, such a sequence is much more likely to have 6 cards, as others have posted.

[jtfanclub]

effervesce, on May 4 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Well, awm plays 1♦ as 0+, as do I, and thus for us 1♦ then 2♣ doesnt deny 3 spades (3145/3154 possible). Still, compared to standard, such a sequence is much more likely to have 6 cards, as others have posted.

You don't bid 2♠ there with a singleton heart? Huh.

OK, now I have heard of such a system.

[awm]

I always raise partner's spades with 31(45); the fact that I do open 1♦ with 0+♦ doesn't really effect this. Certainly I would raise spades with any of 3145, 3415, 3451, and so forth (and also with four card support, and also with some balanced hands even 3244 for example).

There are always hands where one rebids 2♠ on a five-card suit, but it should almost always be six. One thing that doesn't come up in a strong club system is the hands where you would like to pass 2♣ but "need to keep the auction alive" with 8-10 hcp and might manufacture a bid.

[effervesce]

jtfanclub, on May 5 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

effervesce, on May 4 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Well, awm plays 1♦ as 0+, as do I, and thus for us 1♦ then 2♣ doesnt deny 3 spades (3145/3154 possible). Still, compared to standard, such a sequence is much more likely to have 6 cards, as others have posted.

You don't bid 2♠ there with a singleton heart? Huh.

OK, now I have heard of such a system.

xxx x AKxxx AKxx I think I'd still prefer to bid 2♣. With Hxx or better sure I'd raise. 1♠ to 2♠. Just like people might rebid 2♠ with AKQJx, one might prefer to show honor location. A 2♣ rebid also saves space for shape relaying.

[Echognome]

effervesce, on May 5 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on May 5 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

effervesce, on May 4 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Well, awm plays 1♦ as 0+, as do I, and thus for us 1♦ then 2♣ doesnt deny 3 spades (3145/3154 possible). Still, compared to standard, such a sequence is much more likely to have 6 cards, as others have posted.

You don't bid 2♠ there with a singleton heart? Huh.

OK, now I have heard of such a system.

xxx x AKxxx AKxx I think I'd still prefer to bid 2♣. With Hxx or better sure I'd raise. 1♠ to 2♠. Just like people might rebid 2♠ with AKQJx, one might prefer to show honor location.

Geez. I've be happy that i've got ruffing values along with my weak trumps and good fillers for partner outside. 2♠ stands out a mile to me there. I'd much prefer bidding 2♠ on xxx x AKxxx AKxx than on, say, AKx x Kxxxx Axxx (which i'd still be bidding 2♠ on), but would feel even worse with say KQT x KJxxx AJxx.

[effervesce]

Echognome, on May 5 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

effervesce, on May 5 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on May 5 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

effervesce, on May 4 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Well, awm plays 1♦ as 0+, as do I, and thus for us 1♦ then 2♣ doesnt deny 3 spades (3145/3154 possible). Still, compared to standard, such a sequence is much more likely to have 6 cards, as others have posted.

You don't bid 2♠ there with a singleton heart? Huh.

OK, now I have heard of such a system.

xxx x AKxxx AKxx I think I'd still prefer to bid 2♣. With Hxx or better sure I'd raise. 1♠ to 2♠. Just like people might rebid 2♠ with AKQJx, one might prefer to show honor location.

Geez. I've be happy that i've got ruffing values along with my weak trumps and good fillers for partner outside. 2♠ stands out a mile to me there. I'd much prefer bidding 2♠ on xxx x AKxxx AKxx than on, say, AKx x Kxxxx Axxx (which i'd still be bidding 2♠ on), but would feel even worse with say KQT x KJxxx AJxx.

You are certainly right about preferring to ruff with small trumps, but we like to keep a usable shape relay from 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♣ - 2♥ which you can't really do after 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♠.

[han]

I'd bid 2C with xxx x AKxxx AKxx, I thinkt the hand is good enough for 2C followed by 2S.

[awm]

The problem is that in a strong club system:

(1) The 2♣ rebid is limited, making partner's pass of it more frequent.
(2) The 2♣ rebid could have longer clubs than diamonds, making partner's pass more frequent.

So I don't really like concealing three-card support. On the plus side, a 2♥ reverse is kind of meaningless, especially in my preferred methods where 6+♦ hands don't open 1♦. So I use the 2♥ rebid as a "good heart raise."

[benlessard]

Quote

The problem is that in a strong club system:

(1) The 2♣ rebid is limited, making partner's pass of it more frequent.
(2) The 2♣ rebid could have longer clubs than diamonds, making partner's pass more frequent.

So I don't really like concealing three-card support. On the plus side, a 2♥ reverse is kind of meaningless, especially in my preferred methods where 6+♦ hands don't open 1♦. So I use the 2♥ rebid as a "good heart raise."

Agree with a great limited hand in a strong club system you have to make the most foward going bid. Otherwise partner going to pass in a safe plus.

[jtfanclub]

benlessard, on May 6 2008, 04:26 AM, said:

Agree with a great limited hand in a strong club system you have to make the most foward going bid. Otherwise partner going to pass in a safe plus.

It's not just that, it's that LHO may have been stuck for a bid, so you need to make the most pre-emtive bid you can safely make as well.

Some people won't have a call with a balanced 13 count over 1♦. Some won't have a good call with a fair diamond suit and the same count. These people may let you steal the contract with 2♠ when they would have doubled or bid 2♦ if you respond 2♣.

2♠ is very pre-emptive when it only promises 7 cards and the 1♠ bidder can have almost any number of hcp. I've managed to pre-empt opponents out of game with it, and I'm sure there's lots of times when they could have pushed us one higher and didn't.