BBO Discussion Forums: Bidding over a preempt - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Bidding over a preempt at the 3 level

#21 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-April-29, 13:29

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

Jlall, on Apr 29 2008, 02:46 AM, said:

The first pass is completely clear, overcalling at the 3 level is just plain undisciplined with this hand and very poor.

Over 3D I just bid 3S, don't see much reason to do anything else.

You don't think that two K-Q combo's, three-card support, and a spade suit playable opposite a stiff Jack is worthy of a fit-jump?

How is a suit that is playable opposite stiff J good for a fit jump? It's either a "pass this always pard" jump or "I have spades and diamonds, willingness to play in either" jump. It's not "partner I have a solid suit unless you have a void, in which case I would like you to pull because i have 3 small in support for you" jump. Those jumps don't exist.

How is your hand any different really than if you had reversed minors? To me 4S says "partner we are playing in this suit, I was not able to bid with my great suit over 3C because of that stupid don't preempt over a preempt rule." And to me, if this bid were a fit jump, I don't understand why it's also a hand with such a strong statement about spades and non statement about diamonds.
0

#22 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-April-29, 13:48

For those who bid 3♠ and then 4♠, but who would not bid 4♠ the first time, what is the difference between these two auctions?

To me, bidding 3♠ and then 4♠ announces the long spade scenario, unplayable in diamonds, whereas 4♠ days that my hand improved because of the diamond call, hence a "fit."

This is not a "fit jump" by some definition in some text somewhere. It is a jump that is motivated by the possession of a fit, a holding that increases the value of the hand significantly. In this sequence, it announces an expected swan, where the possession of something like a fragment in diamonds suddenly reduces the loser expectation significantly.

Maybe the term "fit jump" is confusing the issue.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#23 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-April-29, 13:51

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

For those who bid 3♠ and then 4♠, but who would not bid 4♠ the first time, what is the difference between these two auctions?

That if partner passed 3♠ we like our contract.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#24 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-April-29, 13:52

jdonn, on Apr 29 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

For those who bid 3♠ and then 4♠, but who would not bid 4♠ the first time, what is the difference between these two auctions?

That if partner passed 3♠ we like our contract.

And you would like declaring 3♠ if partner passes? Ugh!
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#25 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-April-29, 15:48

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 29 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

For those who bid 3♠ and then 4♠, but who would not bid 4♠ the first time, what is the difference between these two auctions?

That if partner passed 3♠ we like our contract.

And you would like declaring 3♠ if partner passes? Ugh!

Um, why wouldn't I?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#26 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-April-29, 16:15

jdonn, on Apr 29 2008, 04:48 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 29 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 02:48 PM, said:

For those who bid 3♠ and then 4♠, but who would not bid 4♠ the first time, what is the difference between these two auctions?

That if partner passed 3♠ we like our contract.

And you would like declaring 3♠ if partner passes? Ugh!

Um, why wouldn't I?

Because you don't have a clue until dummy hits as to whether you have a reasonable shot at game. Some random garbage assortment like ♠xx ♥Axx ♦AQxxx ♣xxx is far from hopeless.

I expect to lose two clubs on this hand. I see six additional losers (spade A-J, three diamonds, and the heart Ace), and I need partner to cover five of these. The spade Ace or the heart Ace would likely cover two of these potential losers. It seems fairly reasonable to expect that partner will have one of these cards. If partner only has the A-K or A-Q of diamonds, either is probably good for two additional covers. Thus, with not much more than AQ or AK of diamonds and a pointed Ace, I need little to make game.

The spade Ace plus either red jack will likely work.

The heart Ace plus the spade Jack or a finesse is OK.

What hand will partner have where game is not reasonable?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#27 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-April-29, 17:35

kenrexford, on Apr 29 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

What hand will partner have where game is not reasonable?

Do I only need to come up with one to end this?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users