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One from the bidding practice room

#1 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 14:49

♠x
♥KQxxx
♦xx
♣AKxxx

Playing 2/1, you are dealer.

1♥ - 2♦
2♥* - 3♦
?

*3♣ would have shown extras.

What shall we do now?
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-28, 14:52

This type of hand shows why 3D should be bid very rarely, and should be a very strong suggestion about diamonds. Josh always mocks me saying I only make this bid with 7 solid diamonds, but the auction is pretty much impossible if 3D is not well defined, and even then it's tough.

All that being said, I think the right bid is 4D with a likeminded partner.
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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:02

4d

I guess I miss what the problem is.
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#4 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:26

i abstain on the grounds that I know how badly p of this hand misbid.
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#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:32

Jlall, on Apr 28 2008, 03:52 PM, said:

This type of hand shows why 3D should be bid very rarely, and should be a very strong suggestion about diamonds. Josh always mocks me saying I only make this bid with 7 solid diamonds, but the auction is pretty much impossible if 3D is not well defined, and even then it's tough.

All that being said, I think the right bid is 4D with a likeminded partner.

This seems inconsistent.

Whereas I like and agree with the general theory as to the diamond rebid, this seems to lead to a natural conclusion that this auction essentially demands that the final contract be in a red-suit strain or 3NT. If this is correct, which seems consistent with the thinking, then it seems to follow that 4♣ and 4♦ each agree diamonds. The key would then seem to be what 4♣ would mean in this context and what 4♦ should mean. I'm not sure what the difference should be precisely, but this hand seems to fit into the vast majority of possible 4♣ meanings, mainly because my diamond suck but I have AK in diamonds. 3♠also enters my mind, but that seems to be the hedge bid and ambiguous.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#6 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:40

kenrexford, on Apr 28 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Jlall, on Apr 28 2008, 03:52 PM, said:

This type of hand shows why 3D should be bid very rarely, and should be a very strong suggestion about diamonds. Josh always mocks me saying I only make this bid with 7 solid diamonds, but the auction is pretty much impossible if 3D is not well defined, and even then it's tough.

All that being said, I think the right bid is 4D with a likeminded partner.

This seems inconsistent.

Whereas I like and agree with the general theory as to the diamond rebid, this seems to lead to a natural conclusion that this auction essentially demands that the final contract be in a red-suit strain or 3NT. If this is correct, which seems consistent with the thinking, then it seems to follow that 4♣ and 4♦ each agree diamonds.

Yes, I totally agree, not sure why this is inconsistent we are in complete agreement!

My general style is to only cuebid when I have a good hand for partner to tell them "I have a good hand for you" I would cuebid with a stronger hand, and just raise with a minimum hand so that when I later cuebid he knows my hand was not good. I know this is not your cuebidding style :P Maybe mine is a bit primitive but it seems to work ok.
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#7 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:41

When in doubt, temporize...

Mark me down for 3♠. I'll pas a 3N rebid
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#8 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:42

hrothgar, on Apr 28 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

When in doubt, temporize...

Mark me down for 3♠.  I'll pas a 3N rebid

Do you think partner will bid 3N with 1 black suit stopper and not the other stopped? If so this is not going to be a success when you play 3N opposite no spade stopper :P

TBH I don't understand the desire to play 3N with this hand, we have no diamond filler and we have a stiff spade and potentially 2 suits to set up if we play in diamonds. Even if pard has spades stopped he needs solid diamonds for 3N to be right.
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:46

What's wrong with 4♣? Would that show a better hand and/or 6-4?
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#10 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-April-28, 15:46

Jlall, on Apr 28 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 28 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Jlall, on Apr 28 2008, 03:52 PM, said:

This type of hand shows why 3D should be bid very rarely, and should be a very strong suggestion about diamonds. Josh always mocks me saying I only make this bid with 7 solid diamonds, but the auction is pretty much impossible if 3D is not well defined, and even then it's tough.

All that being said, I think the right bid is 4D with a likeminded partner.

This seems inconsistent.

Whereas I like and agree with the general theory as to the diamond rebid, this seems to lead to a natural conclusion that this auction essentially demands that the final contract be in a red-suit strain or 3NT. If this is correct, which seems consistent with the thinking, then it seems to follow that 4♣ and 4♦ each agree diamonds.

Yes, I totally agree, not sure why this is inconsistent we are in complete agreement!

My general style is to only cuebid when I have a good hand for partner to tell them "I have a good hand for you" I would cuebid with a stronger hand, and just raise with a minimum hand so that when I later cuebid he knows my hand was not good. I know this is not your cuebidding style :P Maybe mine is a bit primitive but it seems to work ok.

Actually, in retrospect I think your approach makes a lot of sense.

If I understand correctly, 4♦ would be somewhat of a bleck bid, whereas 4♣ would be a completely artificial power diamond raise, sort of a Last Train of sorts? Makes sense.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 08:25

4♣ for me. Must show a very shapely min 55, which is more or less what I have. Even if pard takes it as some sort of diamond raise, I'm ok with it.

A direct 4♦ is also nice.
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#12 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 08:52

I probably dont have as extreme a view as Justin about this 3♦ bid, but the essence is the same. Clear 4♦ call to me.

I really don't see what the point of bidding clubs is when partner didn't bid 3♣ and we have xx diamonds and a singleton.
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 09:26

4♦. And then hide.
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-April-29, 16:21

pclayton, on Apr 29 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

4♦. And then hide.

What are you hiding from? You have four controls and a singleton.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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