[louisg]

Scoring: IMP

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12 board team match, all experts

Auction:

1C Dbl 2C 4H
5C 5H Pass ?

[655321]

6♥

Opposite AKxx Axxx xxxx x we have 11 tricks, and this is not a 5♥ bid.
Partner has a club void and a good hand, or (less likely) a singleton club and a very good hand.

So, 6♥ (7 might be cold, but even if it is, we can't find it) because 5♥ is a serious bid, it doesn't show a normal takeout double that hoped to make 4♥.

[jdonn]

Very easy pass. Even if 6♥ could possibly make it's a total shot in the dark and very undisciplined. How much less than this are we supposed to have been able to bid 4♥ with?

[louisg]

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Very easy pass. Even if 6♥ could possibly make it's a total shot in the dark and very undisciplined. How much less than this are we supposed to have been able to bid 4♥ with?

How about xxx KTxxxx x Axx? Given that we are now pretty sure that partner has a club void (they figure to be 6-4 on everyone's bidding), isn't this hand a full trick worse than the actual one?

Quote

I pass, partner could just be taking a shot with like a club void and 4 hearts and a 9 count or w/e. We have shown our hand let's not break discipline now.

Wouldn't "taking a shot with like a club void and 4 hearts and a 9 count" be breaking discipline? This isn't a forcing pass situation, so partner should be passing with a minimum double, shouldn't he?

Believe me, I'm not claiming that it's clear to bid on here (that's why I posted), but these arguments haven't convinced me.

[louisg]

Quote

Or are you implying that 5H is some kind of slam invite/shows extras or something? I don't get it.

Yes, I'm definitely implying that 5H shows extras. In fact, I'm not just implying it

Quote

This isn't a forcing pass situation, so partner should be passing with a minimum double, shouldn't he?

[benlessard]

Bidding 5H dont suggest slam at all. It suggest that 5H might make or be a cheap save. I think the correct bid is pass but bidding 6H is probably a fair gamble.

Decent opponents will often smell the void and lead spades so we might easily lose 2-3 spades right from the start

We are playing the hand so partner K♠ isnt protected

[MFA]

With a club void and 4 decent hearts, partner will take the push even with a dead minimum as a two-way shot. Although our hand looks promising and slam easily could be on, I think that there are too many holes to bid an undisciplined 6♥.

[kfay]

me don't

[ewj]

Easy pass

[helene_t]

The only call that exists in this position is pass IMHO. If 5♥ was a slam invite, then how is p supposed to express a desire to compete to the 5-level?

[gnasher]

helene_t, on May 1 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

The only call that exists in this position is pass IMHO.

Aren't you allowed to reevaluate your hand in the light of further bidding? I'm not saying that you should necessarily do so here (although it's quite tempting), but I don't like the principle that having limited my hand I'm not then allowed to change my mind about its value.

[TimG]

gnasher, on May 1 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

helene_t, on May 1 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

The only call that exists in this position is pass IMHO.

Aren't you allowed to reevaluate your hand in the light of further bidding? I'm not saying that you should necessarily do so here (although it's quite tempting), but I don't like the principle that having limited my hand I'm not then allowed to change my mind about its value.

But, this is sort of a case of 1N-4H (transfer)-think. Responder had ways of showing a hand that had a whiff of slam interest -- it's not for opener to re-evaluate here.

Now, I admit that the auction in question is not an identical situation, but it is similar. While "never" may not be right, it seems that bidding on should be a very rare choice. "Only call" may have been an overbid, but not by much.

[gnasher]

I don't think the comparison with 1N-4♥ particularly apt. In the given situation, you need a perfect minimum (KQJx AJxx xxxxx -) to make slam cold, and partner had very little space to express gradations of interest. That would not be the case after a 1NT opening and an attempted signoff in game, because responder started with plenty of space and various options, but declined to use any of them.

[Free]

Do you or don't you do what? Pass! wtp

[neilkaz]

Pass ! PD is most likely bidding 5♥ as a two way shot. Maybe it makes, maybe it is a good save if 5♣ makes.

I basically bid my offensive values the first time. Noting that my playing strength for 4♥ is based on length and some HCP rather than decent (11-12 HCP) and less length, shouldn't make me think we have a magic slam and also makes me think that PD's 5♥ is more likely to be a two way shot.

Perhaps the opps are doubling 5♥...if we bid 6♥ and they had any thoughts about doubling 5♥, we will get whacked. Then...I expect to lose a couple of things..

1) More IMPs (perhaps loads more if we take 11 tricks in 6♥x)

2) PD's confidence and perhaps PD

3) Two teammates.

Clear pass to me .. neilkaz ..

[han]

Here we go again, instead of thinking about which call has the best expected value we worry about what partner and teammates will do if we choose wrongly. If you really need to worry about that then perhaps it is time you find new people to play with.

[Apollo81]

This is very simple. We have our bid. Partner did not invite us to bid more. Therefore there's no reason to bid further.