[luke warm]

just ask any navy seal or army ranger, they've all undergone it as part of their training... course i'm not sure it's called that

[kenberg]

luke warm, on May 5 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

just ask any navy seal or army ranger, they've all undergone it as part of their training... course i'm not sure it's called that

A while back a guy wrote in to the local rag (Washington Post) mentioning that he had undergone waterboarding as part of his training. I think he was a SEAL. I took his word for it but it is good to have independent confirmation. He said he talked. I definitely took his word for that!

These are things that I (happily) know too little about to have a worthwhile opinion on specifics. In general terms, a technique that gets people top blab but does no lasting physical or psychological harm (if that's the case) is not in the same category as pulling out fingernails.smashing kneecaps, or attaching electrodes to genitalia, at least in my opinion. Well, perhaps it is, legally, but it isn't to me, morally.


We need something we can live with. We need to preserve our humanity, we need to preserve ourselves. There is a clash, unfortunately. Or at least so it seems to me. I'm in favor of erring, as we no doubt must, on the side of humanity but I believe this could lead to some unpleasant consequences and I get impatient with people who see the choices as being oh so easy. In either direction.

[Winstonm]

Quote

We need something we can live with. We need to preserve our humanity, we need to preserve ourselves. There is a clash, unfortunately. Or at least so it seems to me. I'm in favor of erring, as we no doubt must, on the side of humanity but I believe this could lead to some unpleasant consequences and I get impatient with people who see the choices as being oh so easy. In either direction

Well said, Ken, and I agree that it is a must we err on the human side - those who would use inhumane techniques to solicit information have simply been watching too much 24 IMO. It is never so black and white that gathering information from one particular person can stop a disaster.

There are two main falacies in the argument for: 1) if you use inhumane techniques on a suspect, you are punishing that person without a prior conviction, and 2), without legal recourse for the innocent, you do not have rule of law, and you have moved not only into inhumane actions but have also adopted lawlessness to justify those actions.