[rogerclee]

Settle a bet:

(1m) - 1♥ - (P) - 1♠

1♠ means what?

[matmat]

worst
thread
title
ever

i like playing it as 4♠+, forcing, but i don't think there is a standard.

[edited for color, cut and clarity..]

[rbforster]

4+♠ F1 for me (new suit 2 level responses would be NF constructive unless playing transfer advances).

[skjaeran]

I've always played this as 4+♠s and forcing.

That's because I'm applying a style where we never double with 4-5 in the majors unless we're VERY STRONG. So you have to be able to bid 1♠ on xxxx (at worst) to find the 4-4 fit.

I voted 4+ F, but I know this is far from standard. I suspect there's no standard here, but I guess it's 5+ for the majority.

[paulhar]

CLEARLY there is no standard. The Bridge World took a poll in 2001. This is from www.bridgeworld.com. The first number is a percentage of experts that chose this choice, the second is the percentage of Bridge World readers (I'm probably an average bridge world reader - with about 2500 masterpoints)

Bridge World Standard

Poll Results for BWS 2001


These poll questions were used to determine adjustments from previous verisons of Bridge World Standard (BWS) to the 2001 version of the system. The votes are given in parentheses; the first number is the percentage of votes for the item from the expert panel. the second from readers. The Bridge World Standard Defense (BWSD) poll (in the final section), the filtrate of a preliminary poll on all aspects of defensive card play agreements—anything not shown here was accepted from the earlier version of BWSD, the expert vote on each item is given.

(a lot of stuff deleted)
After a Simple Overcall

In BWS-2001, after a simple overcall, unpassed advancer’s new-suit bids should be treated as . . .
1226a. natural and forcing. (24,27)
1226b. natural and nonforcing. (37,34)
1226c. natural and forcing at the same level as the overcall, nonforcing at a higher level. (2,3)
1226d. natural and forcing only following a two-level overcall. (23,16)
1226e. natural and forcing following a two-level overcall or as a one-level advance of a one-level overcall. (0,3)
1226f. part of a system of transfer advances. (13,17)
1226g. something not listed here. (1,0)

Oddly enough, I don't see a difference between a 4-card suit and a 5-card suit. I thought it was CLEARLY a 5-card suit but also clearly I am in the minority.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if 1S could be based on a 4 carder, the
bid should certainly be forcing.

Personnally I prefer 1S to show 5 cards,
a suit as good as the overcalled one,
constructive, but non forcing.

And surely, tis wont be unanimous.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

paulhar, on Apr 27 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

CLEARLY there is no standard.  The Bridge World took a poll in 2001.  This is from www.bridgeworld.com.  The first number is a percentage of experts that chose this choice, the second is the percentage of Bridge World readers (I'm probably an average bridge world reader - with about 2500 masterpoints)

Bridge World Standard

Poll Results for BWS 2001


  These poll questions were used to determine adjustments from previous verisons of Bridge World Standard (BWS) to the 2001 version of the system. The votes are given in parentheses; the first number is the percentage of votes for the item from the expert panel. the second from readers. The Bridge World Standard Defense (BWSD) poll (in the final section), the filtrate of a preliminary poll on all aspects of defensive card play agreements—anything not shown here was accepted from the earlier version of BWSD, the expert vote on each item is given.

(a lot of stuff deleted)
After a Simple Overcall

  In BWS-2001, after a simple overcall, unpassed advancer’s new-suit bids should be treated as . . .
  1226a. natural and forcing. (24,27)
  1226b. natural and nonforcing. (37,34)
  1226c. natural and forcing at the same level as the overcall, nonforcing at a higher level. (2,3)
  1226d. natural and forcing only following a two-level overcall. (23,16)
  1226e. natural and forcing following a two-level overcall or as a one-level advance of a one-level overcall. (0,3)
  1226f. part of a system of transfer advances. (13,17)
  1226g. something not listed here. (1,0) 

Oddly enough, I don't see a difference between a 4-card suit and a 5-card suit.  I thought it was CLEARLY a 5-card suit but also clearly I am in the minority.

This poll was probably taken in 1999 or 2000. It's relative old in other words.

I don't understand the logic of "c", I think they have it backward in some cases.

[paulhar]

pclayton, on Apr 27 2008, 12:45 PM, said:

This poll was probably taken in 1999 or 2000. It's relative old in other words.

Really? The game has changed that much? Well, I have played maybe a local tournament a year and maybe 200-500 hands on BBO since that time so if the game is that much different, I have to relearn it and might as well give up the game since time contraints exist. And I thought the reason to give up the game was those rediculous alert/UI discussions I've seen! (i.e. you aren't allowed to know what the opponents are playing because you give unauthorized information if you ask)

[awm]

I think it's pretty standard (in the US anyway) that 1♠ here is forcing one round.

Whether it shows four or five is more questionable -- I suspect that most would "like" it to show five but would also bid it with a strong 42(43) hand. In any case overcaller is expected to normally raise with three card support.

[BillHiggin]

paulhar, on Apr 27 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

[(i.e. you aren't allowed to know what the opponents are playing because you give unauthorized information if you ask)

There is nothing illegal about "giving UI". The issue is that partner must go out of his way to avoid taking advantage of such UI when it does happen. You might be able to make a bid or play that gives the same information in an authorized manner, and that will override the UI.

[helene_t]

awm, on Apr 27 2008, 07:04 PM, said:

I think it's pretty standard (in the US anyway) that 1♠ here is forcing one round.

Whether it shows four or five is more questionable -- I suspect that most would "like" it to show five but would also bid it with a strong 42(43) hand. In any case overcaller is expected to normally raise with three card support.

That is what came out of the Biuedermeijer poll also. It happens to be my preferred style as well.

[han]

Arend and I play 4+ NF. A jump shift to 2S is natural and forcing (and extremely rare).