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Why did I bid like that? Would you dare w/o specific agreement?

Poll: What would your hand be looking like? (20 member(s) have cast votes)

What would your hand be looking like?

  1. 1) [SP]K2 [HE]A2 [DI]A32 [CL]KQJ932 (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  2. 2) [SP]KQJ [HE]32 [DI]QJ2 [CL]AKJ92 (7 votes [35.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.00%

  3. 3) [SP]KQ2 [HE]A32 [DI]AQJ2 [CL]J932 (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  4. 4) [SP]KQJ2 [HE]A432 [DI]KJ2 [CL]K2 (8 votes [40.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

  5. 5) [SP]KJ32 [HE]A432 [DI]KJ2 [CL]K2 (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  6. 6) [SP]KQJ2 [HE]A432 [DI]K432 [CL]A (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 7) Partner must guess! (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. 8) I never bid like that! (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   nielsfoged 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 07:47

MP. E/None
You are South and holds one of those 6(8) hands above:
(1♣)-1NT(15-18 bal)-(pass)-pass; (2♣)-DBL!

Which hand are you must likely to hold?

Would you dare to DBL if no specific agreement had been made with your regular partner?

/Niels
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:06

Something like a 4423 with a double club guard. A 4432 or a 4423 with a single club guard should probably have doubled in the first place.

I don't think I should make this call without discussion.
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#3 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:08

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?
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#4 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:14

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.
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#5 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:16

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 03:14 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.

LOL
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#6 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:21

Penalty double absent a specific agreement to the contrary. I would have one of the first two hands listed in the poll.
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#7 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:45

I'm looking behind door number 2. PENALTY! I would have passed #1 or bid 3♣ if that's natural and strong.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
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#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 08:52

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.

... and happen to hold a bal. shape.

Making discovering 44 / 53 fits in a mayor easier.

I am not sure, if the quoted comment was intended
as a joke, but there are hands, which make a 1NT
overcall and a re suitable for a delayed t/o.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#9 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 09:42

P_Marlowe, on Apr 25 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.

... and happen to hold a bal. shape.

Making discovering 44 / 53 fits in a mayor easier.

Easier than after a double?

Won't advancer sometimes have a four-card major without enough strength to act over a NT overcall, thus missing a 4-4 fit that would have been found after a double?
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#10 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 09:44

I've discussed this auction.

We play

1x 1NT P P
2x dbl

as penalties against a minor, and take-out against a major

as already mentioned, if I had a take-out double of 1C I would have doubled last round.
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 10:03

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.

This logic makes no sense to me. You are allowed to make a takeout double first on such a hand if appropriate. If it's not then you don't have the second double. So I think clear penalty.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#12 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 11:28

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Apr 25 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

TimG, on Apr 25 2008, 09:14 AM, said:

Apollo81, on Apr 25 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

If this is a takeout double, why didn't we double 1♣?

Because we counted our points and had a club stopper.

... and happen to hold a bal. shape.

Making discovering 44 / 53 fits in a mayor easier.

Easier than after a double?

Won't advancer sometimes have a four-card major without enough strength to act over a NT overcall, thus missing a 4-4 fit that would have been found after a double?

This can of course happen as well.

You will need to weight what descirbes your hand better,
a t/o, promising an opening hand with shortage in their
suit or 1NT, promising 15/16-17/18HCP, a stopper and
a bal. hand.
You will have also to weight, if you choose the t/o which
is less risky than a 1 NT overcall, but usually the continuations
are less well defined compare to the continuations after
a 1NT overcall.
A 1 NT overcall will also have a certain preemptive effect.

Take your pick.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#13 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 14:49

I don't get this.

You are allowed to open 1NT with 4-4 or 4-3 in the majors if you are balanced. Sometimes, this means that you do not find a 4-4 major fit. However, that is usually not as costly as having a one-of-a-minor...1NT have a range of 11-17.

Why, then, is it OK, and even preferable, for a double to replace a 1NT overcall when you clearly have a 1NT overcall strength, leaving partner thinking that you have 11-17 if you are balanced?

From my experience, opting 1NT when the legitimate options are 1NT or double works beter in the long run. Just my opinion.
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 15:54

FrancesHinden, on Apr 25 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

We play

1x 1NT P P
2x dbl

as penalties against a minor, and take-out against a major

as already mentioned, if I had a take-out double of 1C I would have doubled last round.

But if they opened 1H and you had a takeout double of that, you'd overcall 1NT?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#15 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 17:22

:) Hand three for me. My bidding gets wild when I have 14 cards.
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