[jillybean]

West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣
 1♦    Pass  1♠    Pass
 2♠    3♠      

How do the experts play 3♠ here?

[hrothgar]

New partner asking bid???

On a more serious note, the only thing that makes sense is that the 3♠ bidder

1. Had a trap pass of 1♦
2. Is worried about a spade stopper for 3NT

[mikeh]

hrothgar, on Apr 23 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

New partner asking bid???

On a more serious note, the only thing that makes sense is that the 3♠ bidder

1. Had a trap pass of 1♦
2. Is worried about a spade stopper for 3NT

agree: note that partner will have BOTH the diamond trap and lack of a spade stopper... and values for game

[P_Marlowe]

I would add, that the bid will also be based on
a certain spade length, because he could double
instead of bidding 3S, at least for me double of
2S would be for t/o.

Although I am hard pressed (*) to believe that partner
has game forcing values, given that he is a passed
hand.

(*) In fact, I would not believe it, but forced to bid
something, I would bid 3NT with a stopper.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

Without the initial pass: a trap pass of diamonds with a good hand and no desire to defend 2Sx.

I play double of 2S here showing a penalty double of diamonds, but partner will pass it with a decent 3-card spade holding so I wouldn't double with a singleton spade.

With the initial pass: I don't think it exists.

[jdonn]

So to the peanut gallery, what's the difference between 3♦ and 3♠ here? I ask this having no particularly special answer in mind.

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Apr 23 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

Without the initial pass: a trap pass of diamonds with a good hand and no desire to defend 2Sx.

I play double of 2S here showing a penalty double of diamonds, but partner will pass it with a decent 3-card spade holding so I wouldn't double with a singleton spade.

With the initial pass: I don't think it exists.

ooops, I had overlooked the initial pass.. now I agree, this call doesn't exist.

[cherdano]

jdonn, on Apr 23 2008, 10:18 AM, said:

So to the peanut gallery, what's the difference between 3♦ and 3♠ here? I ask this having no particularly special answer in mind.

3♦ is non-forcing. 3♠ is GF by an unpassed hand and doesn't exist by a passed han.d

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Apr 23 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

So to the peanut gallery, what's the difference between 3♦ and 3♠ here? I ask this having no particularly special answer in mind.

I don't think 3♦ OR 3♠ can exist by a passed hand.

By an unpassed hand:

3♦: xx xxx KJT9xxx A (OK, maybe this doesn't qualify as a preempt and could exist)

3♠: xx Axx KQTxxx Ax

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Apr 23 2008, 05:18 PM, said:

So to the peanut gallery, what's the difference between 3♦ and 3♠ here? I ask this having no particularly special answer in mind.

My first thought was to agree that 3D is non-forcing, but actually I am not convinced that it is.

I know that 1C 1S P P 2C P 2S I have agreed as natural and forcing.

So I don't know.

[P_Marlowe]

jdonn, on Apr 23 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

So to the peanut gallery, what's the difference between 3♦ and 3♠ here? I ask this having no particularly special answer in mind.

... 3D is natural and nonforcing, but promising competive
values.

This being said, I would not try it out, unless I had a prior
serious discussion (not likely, given the exotic sequence),
or I was playing a training match.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: We have fairly tight requirements about preempts in 1st or
2nd seat, so it can happen that one holds a hand, which other
would have opened direct, so a 3D bid would still be possible
by a passed hand.

[jtfanclub]

Hmmmm....

xx
AK
JT9876
KJ4

That's the only hand I can come up with. Gotta have good club support (after all, if opener doesn't have a spade stop, you're playing in 4 clubs), without 3 hearts.

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣
 1♦    Pass  1♠    Pass
 2♠    3♠    Pass  3NT
 Dbl   4♣    Pass  Pass
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 

Here is the full hand. I too thought 3♠ had to be showing a strong hand with no ♠ stopper.

Now lets scrutinize my opening, my partner said this was a horrible 1♣ bid. He suggested I add Drury to my CC and open this 1♥. I think it was my partners failure to bid 1 ♥ over the ops 1♦ was the problem.

I do like the idea of opening this type of hand 1M in 3rd seat but I’m not sure adding Drury is necessary. The last thing I need is a license to find more 3rd seat openings What do you think?

[jtfanclub]

Just open it 1NT, and all your problems will go away!

[pclayton]

jillybean2, on Apr 23 2008, 10:02 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

- Pass Pass 1♣
1♦ Pass 1♠ Pass
2♠ 3♠ Pass 3NT
Dbl 4♣ Pass Pass
Dbl Pass Pass Pass


Here is the full hand. I too thought 3♠ had to be showing a strong hand with no ♠ stopper.

Now lets scrutinize my opening, my partner said this was a horrible 1♣ bid. He suggested I add Drury to my CC and open this 1♥. I think it was my partners failure to bid 1 ♥ over the ops 1♦ was the problem.

I do like the idea of opening this type of hand 1M in 3rd seat but I’m not sure adding Drury is necessary. The last thing I need is a license to find more 3rd seat openings What do you think?

Sometimes we have an interesting discussion on the meaning of an unusual bid.

Frequently when the real auction is revealed, all kinds of bids are haywire.

1♣ is curious without discussion.

Pass over 1♦ is bizarre. Looks like your pard plays a lot of rubber bridge. 1♥ is obvious to me. The auction took a strange turn later, but 3N looks really good to me. Pulling to 4♣ is very unilateral.

Drury should be the last thing discussed here.

[jdonn]

I think 3♠ should in fact imply club support with the diamond length, otherwise how is the hand good enough to force to game as a passed hand? So clearly north has to pass 3NT.

Of course the problems all started when he didn't bid 1♥. 1♣ was strange without agreement but shouldn't have cost.

[neilkaz]

I hate the open with 2♣'s style so that 1♦ guarantee's four, but that shouldn't have cost you on this hand.

PD's pass of the 1♦ overcall with 4♥ is truly weird to put it mildly.

His weird 3♠ bid is just asking for trouble and on the basis of the bidding so far, it sure seems to be asking for a stop for 3NT. I'd assume he misscounted his HCP and didn't open (ie the opps are both very light) and finally woke up. So your 3NT is clear.

His pull to 4♣ is awful ! Why not leave it where game may even make ?

Then he had the audacity to criticize your choice of opening. 1♣ is certainly not my style, but rather than criticize, I'd say, " Oops, PD are we playing 1♦ is always 4 ?"

I'd announce that I'm leaving to walk the Guinea pig after this hand. (Don't have a dog)

.. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

Oh yeah, my funny 1♣ opening. Ive been playing short ♣ with a player at the club lately and even so, I get it wrong the rest of the time.
If nothing else comes from this hand, I'll fix that problem

1♦ promises 4 except when 4432, Wayne must have told me this 100x

[OleBerg]

pclayton, on Apr 23 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

Pulling to 4♣ is very unilateral.

Thats putting it mildly.

Best Regards

Ole Berg

[han]

I agree that 1C without discussion is strange (with discussion it is fine though I don't like the method). Passing 1D is not a good idea because you know the opponents have a big spade fit. Get your hearts and clubs in soon before you can't show your hand.

Passing 1D followed by 3S would have been normal by an unpassed hand.