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Alertable in ACBL "Garbage" Stayman

Poll: If you play that NT-opener's response to stayman can be passed, is 2C alertable? (71 member(s) have cast votes)

If you play that NT-opener's response to stayman can be passed, is 2C alertable?

  1. Of course (5 votes [7.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.04%

  2. No, but it should be marked on the CC (5 votes [7.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.04%

  3. Opener should only alert when he has a minimum ;) (2 votes [2.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.82%

  4. The only alertable option is if 2C is invitational+ (1 votes [1.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.41%

  5. The Q is ridiculous, it's normal stayman, so of course not (58 votes [81.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.69%

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#21 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-April-21, 09:50

mycroft, on Apr 21 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

Having said that, I Alert my EHAA 1NT-2C auction, as its primary statement is "I can't place the contract, but I have at least INV values

I wouldn't, but I would alert all the responses to 2♣ that show a specific strength (eg., 2♥ showing a weak NT, 3♥ being GF).

The rule is pretty clear here- 2♣ is not to be alerted in the U.S. if it's forcing and asking about a 4 card major.
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#22 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-21, 10:20

I don't think the question is ridiculous, but the answer is clear. I also hate these people btw, whoever they are or did.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#23 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2008-April-21, 11:35

Re EHAA 2C - it's not the responses that are weird (except for 2NT - both majors, would refuse a NT invitation, and 3C - both majors, would accept a NT invitation, both of which are clearly Alertable), there isn't a call over 3C, so yeah.

It's that 2C is the correct call with AKTxxx Qx Kxx xx (will bid spades invitationally next), AKTxxx AQ AKx xx (will bid spades GF+ next), KQx Txx AKxxx T9x (NT invite, of course), and AKQJxxx x Kx KQJ (4C next for slam if 2 aces); along with any hand that actually has interest in partner's response in the major (and INV+ values). And it specifically denies 4=4=4=1 without 10 high. Yeah, we could (and do) Alert all those weird responses that may deny a 4-card major (or promise more than a 4-card major), but it's odd enough that the opponents may want to know.

Our explanation is something like "Ostensibly Stayman, but frequently has no interest in my response. Any hand INV+ that can't place the contract immediately starts with 2C". Yes, I know it's not technically Alertable; I have yet to have anyone complain (as I say, nor have I had anyone complain when we Alert 2D/2H/2S, even though (after the Pre-Alert), we don't have to do that either. I have definitely had pairs who would have complained had we not Alerted it, again, even though we didn't have to).
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#24 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-April-21, 12:23

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 01:38 AM, said:

We'll never get a unanimous poll about a bidding decision, but let's hope we can at least get a unanimous poll about this.

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=24966 :P
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#25 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2008-April-21, 20:21

mycroft, on Apr 21 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

Re EHAA 2C - it's not the responses that are weird (except for 2NT - both majors, would refuse a NT invitation, and 3C - both majors, would accept a NT invitation, both of which are clearly Alertable), there isn't a call over 3C, so yeah.

It's that 2C is the correct call with AKTxxx Qx Kxx xx (will bid spades invitationally next), AKTxxx AQ AKx xx (will bid spades GF+ next), KQx Txx AKxxx T9x (NT invite, of course), and AKQJxxx x Kx KQJ (4C next for slam if 2 aces); along with any hand that actually has interest in partner's response in the major (and INV+ values). And it specifically denies 4=4=4=1 without 10 high. Yeah, we could (and do) Alert all those weird responses that may deny a 4-card major (or promise more than a 4-card major), but it's odd enough that the opponents may want to know.

Our explanation is something like "Ostensibly Stayman, but frequently has no interest in my response. Any hand INV+ that can't place the contract immediately starts with 2C". Yes, I know it's not technically Alertable; I have yet to have anyone complain (as I say, nor have I had anyone complain when we Alert 2D/2H/2S, even though (after the Pre-Alert), we don't have to do that either. I have definitely had pairs who would have complained had we not Alerted it, again, even though we didn't have to).

I don't think there's anything wrong with alerting things not technically alertable, if you think the opponents will need to know.
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#26 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2008-April-22, 13:27

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 19 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you can't stand this person. They seem nice!

Well, this is also an opponent who explained his partner's 1NT overcall as "12-15, and we play systems on".

THIS GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

Yes, I hate him.

No, you hate his partner. :)

Whereas, I think that his partner is nice, and that this guy is highly annoying.

I dislike both of them pretty strongly.

I hate everyone. Especially people who hate others.
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#27 User is offline   Elianna 

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Posted 2008-April-22, 13:54

joshs, on Apr 22 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 19 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you can't stand this person. They seem nice!

Well, this is also an opponent who explained his partner's 1NT overcall as "12-15, and we play systems on".

THIS GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

Yes, I hate him.

No, you hate his partner. :)

Whereas, I think that his partner is nice, and that this guy is highly annoying.

I dislike both of them pretty strongly.

I hate everyone. Especially people who hate others.

So you hate yourself?
My addiction to Mario Bros #3 has come back!
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#28 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2008-April-22, 15:24

Quote

the Whole world is festering with unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don't like anybody very much.


Sheldon Harnick, "The Merry Minuet", ca 1958.

:P
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#29 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2008-April-22, 16:39

Elianna, on Apr 22 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

joshs, on Apr 22 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 19 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you can't stand this person. They seem nice!

Well, this is also an opponent who explained his partner's 1NT overcall as "12-15, and we play systems on".

THIS GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

Yes, I hate him.

No, you hate his partner. :P

Whereas, I think that his partner is nice, and that this guy is highly annoying.

I dislike both of them pretty strongly.

I hate everyone. Especially people who hate others.

So you hate yourself?

She catches on :D
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#30 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2008-April-22, 19:43

joshs, on Apr 22 2008, 05:39 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 22 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

joshs, on Apr 22 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Apr 20 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

Elianna, on Apr 20 2008, 11:54 AM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 19 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you can't stand this person. They seem nice!

Well, this is also an opponent who explained his partner's 1NT overcall as "12-15, and we play systems on".

THIS GUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

Yes, I hate him.

No, you hate his partner. ;)

Whereas, I think that his partner is nice, and that this guy is highly annoying.

I dislike both of them pretty strongly.

I hate everyone. Especially people who hate others.

So you hate yourself?

She catches on :)

QUOTE PYRAMID!
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