[Cascade]

Scoring: IMP


West North East South

- 1♥ Pass 1♠
Pass 2♥ Pass 2♠
Pass Pass Pass

---

4-card majors, weak 1NT including all 5-3-3-2s

No weak jumps.

[rogerclee]

I agree with South's bidding, and don't understand why N didn't bid 2♣ instead of 2♥, after which it shouldn't be too challenging to reach game.

[655321]

Agree with Roger.

[gnasher]

I don't mind 2♥, but I think North should raise 2♠ to 3♠. 2♠ should be vaguely constructive here.

[effervesce]

2♥ is fine if partnership style is to rebid the major without extras and show the minor with. Unfortunate that on this hand it doesnt work out. Swap south's minor suit lengths and 2♠ is high enough - the bidding did suggest a misfit.

[rbforster]

I think this one comes down to North's choice/methods to rebid 2♥. I would certainly not consider raising 2♠ with North's hand, unless there was a special option for weak hands with long spades available (like an immediate weak jump shift). Remember South could just as easily have his minors swapped and one less spade -

1♥-1♠
2♥-2♠
AP

---

He'll still pull 2♥ to 2♠ here and you're probably in a good spot as any on the misfit.

I know this is a style issue, but with 6M-4m hands I rebid the minor whenever my major isn't close to solid (KQJTxx or the like). It seems that on the hands where partner will take a preference to my major with a doubleton and constructive values I can still raise with a great hand and pass with the rest. Rebidding 2♥ is less flexible and can stick partner with an awkward hand - and not just a bad awkward hand, but after 1♥-1♠, rebidding 2♣ gives partner an easy game-force with 2♦ (4th suit) instead of forcing him to potentially invent a minor suit to force over my 2♥ rebid.

[jdonn]

All north's fault for not rebidding 2♣.

[Cascade]

To all of the 2♣ bidders - what would you bid over 2♣ with the south hand.

[jdonn]

Cascade, on Apr 13 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

To all of the 2♣ bidders - what would you bid over 2♣ with the south hand.

4♣ I think. Even if I bid 3♣, which seems like an underbid, I would expect north to bid 3♥ over that.

[gnasher]

effervesce, on Apr 13 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Swap south's minor suit lengths and 2♠ is high enough - the bidding did suggest a misfit.

Assuming that you're going to swap the honour cards as well as the lengths, you still want to be in game. K7 AJ7432 A754 J opposite QT9543 - 98 KQ932 makes a good game.

[gnasher]

Rob F, on Apr 13 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

I would certainly not consider raising 2♠ with North's hand, unless there was a special option for weak hands with long spades available (like an immediate weak jump shift). Remember South could just as easily have his minors swapped and one less spade

I think it normal to pass 2♥ with such hands. If 2♠ isn't constructive, it makes lots of hands unbiddable.

[mike777]

I would think in a wk nt system that the north hand is more than a minimum and therefore should rebid 2c not 2h. I have not played a wk nt in many years but good thing to discuss with a partner.

In any case even if this is a toppish minimum hand it seems worthwhile to bid 3s now over 2s.

2) if partner does rebid 2c I would rebid 2d and force the hand to game at imps.

[Winstonm]

I think there are a bunch ol lying-ass result merchants on here.

There was nothing particularly wrong with the bidding and no reason to be overly aggressive non-vulnerable at imps.

I know if you had played against me, this board would have been a push - unless you got lucky and got me on lead so I could blow another trick.

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Apr 14 2008, 07:29 AM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 13 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

To all of the 2♣ bidders - what would you bid over 2♣ with the south hand.

4♣ I think. Even if I bid 3♣, which seems like an underbid, I would expect north to bid 3♥ over that.

Is that invitational?

We play pretty much any raise to 4minor as slammish.

[rbforster]

Over a 2♣ rebid, the most I'd consider bidding with South's hand is 3♣ (invitational). On a pessimistic day I might pass... I've got a soft 7 count with clubs sure, but a heart void doesn't exactly look promising. Maybe the implications of a weak NT system (either extras or real clubs for 2♣) makes it worth an invite.

[rogerclee]

Rob F, on Apr 13 2008, 08:52 PM, said:

Over a 2♣ rebid, the most I'd consider bidding with South's hand is 3♣ (invitational).  On a pessimistic day I might pass... I've got a soft 7 count with clubs sure, but a heart void doesn't exactly look promising.  Maybe the implications of a weak NT system (either extras or real clubs for 2♣) makes it worth an invite.

Wow, I think this hand is easily worth a strong invite to game, and I might even GF to make the subsequent strain determination easier.

[rbforster]

gnasher, on Apr 13 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

Rob F, on Apr 13 2008, 04:59 PM, said:

I would certainly not consider raising 2♠ with North's hand, unless there was a special option for weak hands with long spades available (like an immediate weak jump shift).  Remember South could just as easily have his minors swapped and one less spade

I think it normal to pass 2♥ with such hands. If 2♠ isn't constructive, it makes lots of hands unbiddable.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like passing partner in a void when I've got a good suit of my own, even if I've got a poor hand. For example, with

KQJTxx
--
xxxx
xxx

I want to be able to respond 1♠ and if necessary, rebid 2♠ over 2♥ to play. If I can't do this in your style because 1♠...2♠ has to be "constructive," then this hand is basically unbiddable. Playing 2♥ in the 6-0 fit with likely no tricks for partner rates to do quite badly. If I have to pass 2♥, I guess I have to pass 1♥ so I don't get into this mess? Ugh, not for me anyway.

[jdonn]

Cascade, on Apr 13 2008, 10:02 PM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 14 2008, 07:29 AM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 13 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

To all of the 2♣ bidders - what would you bid over 2♣ with the south hand.

4♣ I think. Even if I bid 3♣, which seems like an underbid, I would expect north to bid 3♥ over that.

Is that invitational?

We play pretty much any raise to 4minor as slammish.

Yes, I would always go through 4th suit forcing on that hand. Why bid 4 when you can agree it with 3? I only play what you're saying when 3 was already forcing.

[benlessard]

Quote

I think it normal to pass 2♥ with such hands. If 2♠ isn't constructive, it makes lots of hands unbiddable.

Agree 100%

1S---followed by 2S has to be constructive. Easy 3S.

IMO 2S is the best preempt and one of the best natural bid. No conventionnal use for 2S will bring me enough imps to compensate the loss of this premium bid.

[Free]

North is at fault here imo:
- rebid 2♣ (although 2♥ can turn out ok, it's not good imo)
- after this auction, at least give partner 3♠