[rogerclee]

Let's say you have an auction like this, playing 2/1:

1♦ - (1♠) - 2♥ - (P)
3♦

What would you think 3♦ is in "expert standard"?

By "Depends", I mean that in certain situations you would play it 1-round forcing and in other situations you would play it NF.

[Echognome]

I play 2♥ is a one-round force in competition. So 3♦ would be NF for me. With a GF hand you have to start with 2♠.

[pclayton]

NF

[Winstonm]

If you try to play too many forcing sequences here the opponents can create havoc for you with a simple overcall. For example, you hold: xx, x, AQxxx, AJ10xx
1D-1S-2H-?

If you can't bid a non-forcing 3C here, you have real problems.

[mike777]

I would be shocked that a top class pair, undiscussed, played 3d as forcing. I would be surprised more than a tiny few play it forcing even with a discussion.

[han]

I would be surprised if mikeh plays this as NF.

[CSGibson]

I voted for 1 round force before I really read the post (I thought it was talking about responder's 2/1 bid in comp, and whether that was passable). This sequence would be non-forcing in all of my partnerships.

[effervesce]

NF.

[Free]

NF

[P_Marlowe]

NF.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dcvetkov]

There is a difference between this, rebidding your suit, which wil show 6 carder and some minimum, and bidding new suit at 3 level.

So do you think 3!C would be forcing? is it passed or correct? I can think of many hands where 3!c bid is sensible and good game is missed.

[mikeh]

han, on Apr 13 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

I would be surprised if mikeh plays this as NF.

Depends on who I am playing with (I am soooo easy to get along with as partner )

In two partnerships, it would be forcing. In two others, both of which are more active these days than the other two, it would be nf.

[awm]

I suggest that a good treatment might be that suit bids cheaper than the cue are forcing one round, suit bids above the cuebid are NF, and the cuebid itself is an artificial game force.

This helps with sequences like:

1♦-2♥-2♠-Pass-???

If 3♣/3♦ are NF here then bidding becomes rather awkward; you have to bid 3♥ with virtually any shapely hand that's not a dead minimum.

On the other hand:

1♦-1♠-2♥-Pass-???

A very cheap cuebid (2♠) is available so 3m as NF seems much more playable.

[Gerben42]

invitational but NF if 2♥ was nonforcing (min. hand should pass), nonforcing if 2♥ was forcing.

[ArtK78]

CSGibson, on Apr 13 2008, 10:42 PM, said:

I voted for 1 round force before I really read the post (I thought it was talking about responder's 2/1 bid in comp, and whether that was passable). This sequence would be non-forcing in all of my partnerships.

Me, too. 3♦ is non-forcing.

[mikeh]

awm, on Apr 14 2008, 12:04 PM, said:

I suggest that a good treatment might be that suit bids cheaper than the cue are forcing one round, suit bids above the cuebid are NF, and the cuebid itself is an artificial game force.

This helps with sequences like:

1♦-2♥-2♠-Pass-???

If 3♣/3♦ are NF here then bidding becomes rather awkward; you have to bid 3♥ with virtually any shapely hand that's not a dead minimum.

On the other hand:

1♦-1♠-2♥-Pass-???

A very cheap cuebid (2♠) is available so 3m as NF seems much more playable.

I think it is essential that we have the ability to cue below 2N, if our rebid is to be non-forcing.

Someone posted the hand of xx x AQxxx AJ10xx (more or less) and said that one needs to be able to rebid 3C non forcing. That is ok on the posted auction because we have 2♠ available.

The problem when the below-2N cue is unavailable is that opener's cue will almost always drive responder to bid 3N anytime he has a stopper, without significantly limiting his range... since the cue merely says I can force opposite a 2/1 in comp, the cue carries no assurance of significant extras... so responder cannot afford to bypass 3N even with, say, a 15 count.

And, with the cue saying nothing about shape, we may miss a good fit in the unbid suit.

1♦ [2♥] 2♠:

if we have to bid 3♥ with all forcing hands, we risk playing 3N with Ax AJxxx xx KJ9x opposite xx x AKJxx AQ108x.. opener, having forced partner to fess up to the spade stopper, can hardly bid beyond 3N, when responder may hold QJx KQxxx Qx xxx

I think, but have not fully analayzed, that this idea is, in effect, very similar to Adam's idea.

While I posted that I currently usually play the posted sequence as nf, I definitely do not like the idea that 1♦ [2♥] 2♠ [P] 3♦ is nf.

[dcvetkov]

What about this auction. ? Actually it happened to me yesterday

Partner RHO You LHO
1♦ 1♠ 1NT 2♥
3♣ ????

If this helps here is your hand

♠ A7xx
♥ QJx
♦Qx
♣xxxx

Forcing or not?

[Cascade]

If 2/1 in competition promises a rebid you won't get to bid very often.

I prefer NF (negative free bids) in competition but 1RF is ok.

[P_Marlowe]

dcvetkov, on Apr 14 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

What about this auction. ? Actually it happened to me yesterday

Partner RHO You LHO
1♦ 1♠ 1NT 2♥
3♣ ????

If this helps here is your hand

♠ A7xx
♥ QJx
♦Qx
♣xxxx

Forcing or not?

3C is NF, but nf does not mean garbage, a 13-14 HCP with
5-5 in the minor would be eneough.

The 40HCP crosscheck will help you here, you have 9, the
opponents have at least 15-16 between them, which means
partner has at most 16HCP.

I would bid 3NT, maybe it makes, if they double me, I will
pass.

With kind regards

Marlowe

[dcvetkov]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 15 2008, 02:10 AM, said:

dcvetkov, on Apr 14 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

What about this auction. ? Actually it happened to me yesterday

Partner  RHO  You      LHO
1♦      1♠    1NT  2♥
3♣                  ????

If this helps here is your hand

♠ A7xx
♥ QJx
♦Qx
♣xxxx

Forcing or not?

3C is NF, but nf does not mean garbage, a 13-14 HCP with
5-5 in the minor would be eneough.

The 40HCP crosscheck will help you here, you have 9, the
opponents have at least 15-16 between them, which means
partner has at most 16HCP.

I would bid 3NT, maybe it makes, if they double me, I will
pass.

With kind regards

Marlowe

I doubt that 3Nt is a good call here. We probably have only one stopper in majors and highly unlikely we can cash out 9 tricks

Partner had pretty good hand 6-5, but still, no game makes ( clubs are 3-1)

Q x A109xxx AKxxx

If I had really good honour fit, like QJx in clubs, I would raise or bid 5♣