[luis]

Trpltrbl, on Mar 12 2004, 03:44 PM, said:

flytoox, on Mar 12 2004, 06:52 AM, said:

luis, on Mar 11 2004, 07:47 PM, said:

3NT should show something balanced with stoppers in the remaining suits. But now what do you do if you have
a) A slamish hand
A minimum with problems in clubs
c) A minimum with problems in hearts

3h is the only bid below 3NT so with b or c you bid 3h and now what? Imagine North is 5-3-4-1 or 5-1-4-3 does he bid 3NT wiht the 1st hand or the second one? What about 5-2-4-2? What about a 6-1-3-3 hand with horrible spades ?

Are we going to conclude that after 1M-2d;3d the auction gets impossible ? That's scaring.....

Yes, so 3N is the only right bid in my opinion. with a slammish hand, cuebid if you have any control, without control but still want to try slam, bid 4D.


After south 3N, North still will try 4N to invite and south should reject and play there.

I agree with 3♥ by south being an overbid. Just bid 3 NT.

Mike

So you will want to play 3NT when pd has:

AQJxx
xx
AKxx
xx

Down 2 on a heart lead. You win 4s.
Or:

Axxxx
x
AKxx
Axx

Down 3 but this time you only win 6d, don't worry.

mmmmm.....

[flytoox]

luis, on Mar 12 2004, 05:26 PM, said:

Trpltrbl, on Mar 12 2004, 03:44 PM, said:

flytoox, on Mar 12 2004, 06:52 AM, said:

luis, on Mar 11 2004, 07:47 PM, said:

3NT should show something balanced with stoppers in the remaining suits. But now what do you do if you have
a) A slamish hand
A minimum with problems in clubs
c) A minimum with problems in hearts

3h is the only bid below 3NT so with b or c you bid 3h and now what? Imagine North is 5-3-4-1 or 5-1-4-3 does he bid 3NT wiht the 1st hand or the second one? What about 5-2-4-2? What about a 6-1-3-3 hand with horrible spades ?

Are we going to conclude that after 1M-2d;3d the auction gets impossible ? That's scaring.....

Yes, so 3N is the only right bid in my opinion. with a slammish hand, cuebid if you have any control, without control but still want to try slam, bid 4D.


After south 3N, North still will try 4N to invite and south should reject and play there.

I agree with 3♥ by south being an overbid. Just bid 3 NT.

Mike

So you will want to play 3NT when pd has:

AQJxx
xx
AKxx
xx

Down 2 on a heart lead. You win 4s.
Or:

Axxxx
x
AKxx
Axx

Down 3 but this time you only win 6d, don't worry.

mmmmm.....

Accident may happen with the first hand, but definitely not with the second hand. 3N is only a suggestion to play. with the second hand you gave, pd will jump to 3H, showing d spt with heart singleton.

[luis]

flytoox, on Mar 12 2004, 08:00 PM, said:

So you will want to play 3NT when pd has:

AQJxx
xx
AKxx
xx

Down 2 on a heart lead. You win 4s.
Or:

Axxxx
x
AKxx
Axx

Down 3 but this time you only win 6d, don't worry.
--------------
Accident may happen with the first hand, but definitely not with the second hand. 3N is only a suggestion to play. with the second hand you gave, pd will jump to 3H, showing d spt with heart singleton.

I'm too tired but I'm sure I can invent hands over and over again where the system fails. It just doesn't have enough bidding space to show all the likely combinations between the two hands and know how to proceed.
I'm sure Richard will be able to explain this with more detail but it's a terrible flaw in full-duplex systems like 2/1.

[lifemonster]

Of course South takes the full blame. What is 3H and what turns him on with an Aceless hand?

Playing raising promises 4, rebid 2 of opening suit shows catchall including min, I think it will go

1S 2D
2NT 3NT
4D 4S
4NT PASS

[lifemonster]

Axxxx
x
AKxx
Axx

1S-2D, what's wrong with 3H splinter?

Even if you don't play it, what's so wrong with pulling out 3NT after
1S-2D-3D-3NT?

I don't think there is any system flaw. Just judgemental.

[Antoine Fourrière]

Maybe opening 1NT is right, but it is the whole procedure which is flawed. When do both players state that they have a balanced hand? 3♦ is ambiguous and 3♥ is nebulous. These bids do not convey useful information, they are just showing off. I am not sure I would always avoid the slam after a Polish 1♣, a 1♦ relay and a 1NT rebid, but at least I would start on the right track, that is, points and not controls.

Playing standard, opening 1♦ and rebidding 2NT would probably work.
So would opening 1♠ and rebidding 2NT if it guarantees a 5332.

But getting the decent 5332s out of the 1♠ opening allows something like
1♠ 2♦
2♥ hearts, as usual
2♠ weakish, maybe non-forcing when not playing 2/1
2N clubs, not 5-1-3-4, allows responder to bid 3♣ with a balanced hand
3♣ 6+ spades, forces only to 3♦ or 3♠ when not playing 2/1
3♦ weakish, maybe non-forcing when not playing 2/1
3♥ heart (other major) shortness, maybe 5-1-3-4
3♠ club (other minor) shortness
3N 5-2-4-2

[CharlieS]

18 HCP with two wasted Jacks and a horrible spade suit looks like time to bid 1NT. If we miss slam It ain't MY fault.