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2/1 with weak 12-14 NT range 2452 with a good 13 all in the reds

Poll: what's your plan (45 member(s) have cast votes)

what's your plan

  1. Open 1NT (12-14) (12 votes [26.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  2. Open 1[di] planning to rebid 2[di] over likely 1[sp] (33 votes [73.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.33%

  3. Anything else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 02:06

Scoring: MP

Pass to you

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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 03:29

1♦. Why is this a problem? :(
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 03:30

I almost always open 1NT with this shape but I have no objections to 1♦ with this suit.
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 03:31

whereagles, on Apr 9 2008, 10:29 AM, said:

1♦. Why is this a problem? :blink:

1NT, no idea why this is a problem :(
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#5 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 04:24

I open 1NT but I have no real objection to 1♦.
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#6 User is offline   david_c 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 05:32

Clear 1♦. Yes 2452 hands can be opened 1NT but doing it on this hand is taking a good thing too far.
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#7 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 05:53

1NT

But no objections to 1♦ either. :(
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#8 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 07:49

Cascade, on Apr 9 2008, 05:24 AM, said:

I open 1NT but I have no real objection to 1♦.

I am intrigued by this sort of response.If you prefer 1NT then there must be a good reason, so you must have some objection to 1♦.Surely you would not bid 1NT on some occasions and 1♦ on others?
Is 1NT bid with 5-4-2-2 shape alertable?If it is not alerted and if a defender notices a dbltn in declarer's hand and misdefends on the assumption that declarer can't have another dbltn does he get any redress?
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#9 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 09:05

zasanya, on Apr 9 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 9 2008, 05:24 AM, said:

I open 1NT but I have no real objection to 1♦.

Surely you would not bid 1NT on some occasions and 1♦ on others?

By partnership agreement, we don't open 1NT with two small doubletons. Those hands tend to better in suits.

However, one issue here is how many diamonds a 1♦ opening promises with a minimum. If 1♦ is always one of

15+ hcp, or
5+ diamonds, or
exactly 4-4-4-1 distribution

then I feel a lot better about opening this 1♦, as if we get competition I'll have gotten more about my hand off my chest.
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#10 User is offline   NickToll 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 09:15

With this shape, I usually open 1NT: but, holding AKQxx in diamonds, 1♦-1♠-2♦ seems more descriptive. And 1♦-1♥-2♥ would be even more descriptive...
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#11 User is online   PassedOut 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 09:16

1♦, then 2♦ over 1♠, with 2 weak doubletons and a top-heavy ♦ suit.
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#12 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-April-09, 17:22

this is a 1♦ opening, but I won't say anything about the doubletons being weak, what I see is a 54 hand with all the strenght in the long suits, wich is a 2 suiter, not a balanced hand.

Of course saying that the doubletons are weak might mean the same, but I won't ever define a 6-5 as a 2 weak singleton hand.
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#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-April-10, 10:47

zasanya, on Apr 9 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

Cascade, on Apr 9 2008, 05:24 AM, said:

I open 1NT but I have no real objection to 1♦.

I am intrigued by this sort of response.If you prefer 1NT then there must be a good reason, so you must have some objection to 1♦.Surely you would not bid 1NT on some occasions and 1♦ on others?
Is 1NT bid with 5-4-2-2 shape alertable?If it is not alerted and if a defender notices a dbltn in declarer's hand and misdefends on the assumption that declarer can't have another dbltn does he get any redress?

That depends upon where you're playing. In Norway a 1NT opening that might by agreement include a singleton (4441/5431/6331) or 2-3 doubletons (6322/5422/7222) is non-alertable.
Kind regards,
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#14 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-10, 10:52

I think 1NT is clear. The simple fact is if you open 1♦ you probably can't ever stop in 1NT, and if you open 1NT you probably can't ever stop in 2♦ (unlikely exceptions in both cases). It's clear to me that I would rather be able to play a 1NT contract the times partner bids spades than I would a 2♦ contract. Plus if the auction was going 1♦ 1♥ 2♥ on a hand where partner isn't strong enough to invite game, then I'm very glad I opened 1NT since it's the opponents' hand in a black suit.
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#15 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-April-10, 12:38

PassedOut, on Apr 9 2008, 09:16 AM, said:

1♦, then 2♦ over 1♠, with 2 weak doubletons and a top-heavy ♦ suit.

Yes..and not even a close decision for me.
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#16 User is online   PassedOut 

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Posted 2008-April-11, 11:01

jdonn, on Apr 10 2008, 11:52 AM, said:

I think 1NT is clear. The simple fact is if you open 1♦ you probably can't ever stop in 1NT, and if you open 1NT you probably can't ever stop in 2♦ (unlikely exceptions in both cases). It's clear to me that I would rather be able to play a 1NT contract the times partner bids spades than I would a 2♦ contract. Plus if the auction was going 1♦ 1♥ 2♥ on a hand where partner isn't strong enough to invite game, then I'm very glad I opened 1NT since it's the opponents' hand in a black suit.

I too prefer to play 1NT rather than 2♦, if those are the alternatives. But if our side winds up in 3NT, I think partner declaring will have the better shot at a good board. If the auction turns competitive or if we end up defending, partner will have a better picture of my hand.
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-11, 15:01

Anybody for upgrading to 1D-1S-1NT? It's a nice hand isn't it?

I would rather open 1NT than bid 1D-1S-2D.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#18 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2008-April-11, 15:06

1♦ and i do have a problem with partner opening 1NT. I prefer playing by the system as much as possible. The effect of playing as simple as possible and following our system without inventing the wheel is very good for a partnership.
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#19 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-11, 15:20

PassedOut, on Apr 11 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

jdonn, on Apr 10 2008, 11:52 AM, said:

I think 1NT is clear. The simple fact is if you open 1♦ you probably can't ever stop in 1NT, and if you open 1NT you probably can't ever stop in 2♦ (unlikely exceptions in both cases). It's clear to me that I would rather be able to play a 1NT contract the times partner bids spades than I would a 2♦ contract. Plus if the auction was going 1♦ 1♥ 2♥ on a hand where partner isn't strong enough to invite game, then I'm very glad I opened 1NT since it's the opponents' hand in a black suit.

I too prefer to play 1NT rather than 2♦, if those are the alternatives. But if our side winds up in 3NT, I think partner declaring will have the better shot at a good board. If the auction turns competitive or if we end up defending, partner will have a better picture of my hand.

I would rather declare 3NT on an auction that totally hides my shape than have partner declare on an auction that completely reveals both our shapes.

Yes if it becomes competitive than better to have mentioned diamonds. But two points about that. One is that the same argument applies if you hold Qxx Jxx AKQx Jxx too. The other is that 1NT will often prevent it from become competitive when 1♦ would have allowed the spade bid in.

Flame I have to admit....I have no idea what you're talking about lol. Isn't opening 1NT 'playing as simple as possible'?
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#20 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-April-11, 21:09

1NT for me also. No great objection to 1D though.
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