[mike777]

"3. Vul against not

Jx QT8xxx KJx Ax

1C P 1S ??



4. Vul against not (it seemed this was the standard vul on all the critical hands)

AKQxx 98xxxx xx -

1S 2D
2H 3C
3H 3NT
??

Im forcing the first three bids on you…it did go this way at both tables… "

[Apollo81]

(3) I'm sure a lot of people will call this crazy but I would overcall, safer now than later, very close.

(4) pass before this gets out of hand/doubled, hopefully pard will have a lot of extras

edit: agree with not opening, but I would have opened with AKQxxx xxxxx majors

[awm]

(3) This is the sort of hand where bidding can easily go for -800 opposite no game, whereas passing can lead to -110 with a cold +620 available. There's nothing you can do except play the percentages; in the modern era of featherlight openings and responses (and your opponents are definitely known for those) as well as people playing support doubles (making it a bit harder to penalize) I think I would overcall. Obviously this can be great or horrible.

(4) I expect 3NT to go down, probably more than one trick, but bidding on is likely to lead to a 5-1 spade fit that could easily go down just as much and get doubled. This is exactly why I don't open hands like this one! But given the auction so far, pass.

[ewj]

Yeh, I would overcall.

If I would open this, I would open my longest suit first but now I pass.

[whereagles]

pass both. yuck!

[gnasher]

I think that passing 3NT on the second hand is really pessimistic. Partner thinks you're 5-5, so he may well be 1-2 in the majors. Opposite lots of perfectly normal hands like x Ax KQxxx A10xxx, 4♥ is a good contract and 3NT is horrible, especially given the roadmap that the bidding has created for the defence.

Even if partner is 1-1 in the majors, either 4♥ or 5♦ might be OK, but 3NT will still be poor unless partner's diamonds are something like AKxxxx.

Please note that nothing in the above message should be interpreted as condoning the practice of using the fourth suit as a natural bid.

[whereagles]

well, that's all nice when pard has specifically ♥Ax. It might not be so in real life..

[dcvetkov]

I expect 3NT to have poor play, and 4H could easily be worse.unless partner has significat extras...Even if you lucky enough to find Kx or Ax in hearts,,, hand will get tapped quickly and you will lose control, specifically on 4-1 , or 4-2 breaks can be horrible.

Or yes, and partner will correct 4H to 4s with two doubletons, dont forget, thats what the partners are for, right?

Bottom line, would pass this as opener:)

[gnasher]

It's true that Ax is a good heart holding, but it's not essential. Make it x KQ KQxxx A10xx and 4♥ still has play, whereas 3NT is very poor. Extra values might also do: opposite x Qx AKxxx AKxxx 4♥ is almost twice as good as 3NT.

I realise that the hands I'm suggesting are quite prime. Opposite something less suitable like x Qx KQJxx KQJxx 4♥ is hopeless, but so is 3NT.

I think what I most dislike is the negativity of some of the comments from people who pass 3NT. You have a hand which you thought worth an opening bid; partner has said he has enough for game, and might have considerable extras; there are two suits where you might have an eight-card fit; you have a suit-oriented hand; you think 3NT is going down, and it's possible that you can make a suit game. It seems premature to pass, playing for the smallest negative score.

[pclayton]

1. 2♥. I will be slightly anxious if goes pass - pass and RHO tanks.

2. Sorry but I think you've made a mess of things here. I would have passed initially. I have no idea what to do but it seems you've described a minimum 5-5 opener. Pard has expressed an opinion and I see no reason to overrule.

[whereagles]

gnasher, on Apr 8 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

It's true that Ax is a good heart holding, but it's not essential. Make it x KQ KQxxx A10xx and 4♥ still has play, whereas 3NT is very poor. Extra values might also do: opposite x Qx AKxxx AKxxx 4♥ is almost twice as good as 3NT.

I realise that the hands I'm suggesting are quite prime. Opposite something less suitable like x Qx KQJxx KQJxx 4♥ is hopeless, but so is 3NT.

I think what I most dislike is the negativity of some of the comments from people who pass 3NT. You have a hand which you thought worth an opening bid; partner has said he has enough for game, and might have considerable extras; there are two suits where you might have an eight-card fit; you have a suit-oriented hand; you think 3NT is going down, and it's possible that you can make a suit game. It seems premature to pass, playing for the smallest negative score.

Thing is, I don't think we can make a thing and opps are more likely to dbl 4♥ than 3NT