[Rado]

Hi all,
Why too many posters tend to stretch 1♣-1.. 3♣ range so much?
Am I wrong that jump rebid after 1/1 opening shows good 15 upto 17 points and good 6 carder and does not deny or confirm 3 cards in partner's suit?

suppose ♠Axx ♥x ♦Jxx ♣AKQJxx here again 1♣-1♥-3♣ seems normal and standart.

In my view rebid with good 6 carders in 18-20 p range have not been clearly explained in SAYC and 2/1 and the only escape is "artifitial" reverse (2♦ at the original hand). For example in French standart such hands are opened 2♣, together with 23-24 bal range, while FG and 25+ bal are opened 2♦.

Kind regards
Rado

[Yzerman]

Although I love my super science system(s), I personally like to bid this hand type very unscientifically. I like to open 1C and rebid 3N to show ACOL 2 hand in minor with lots of trick taking potential and a few outside controls. My experience with this bid has been very favorable, occasionally you may wrongside a marginal 3NT but this bid has advantage of being very "economical" (fewest # of bids to descripe hand type).

Partner can follow up on the 3N rebid with whatever the partnership RKC methods are, personally i like redwood or kickback on this auction. I play 4C with most partners as RKC on clubs after 3N rebid, and most of my partnerships (at least established partnerships) I have advanced RKC methods to ask for specific 2nd and 3rd round controls, so that can solve this specific hand problem rather easily.

I personally would not open this hand 2NT for this "hand type", lots of tricks, can easily miss a laydown slam or grand when partner have a "magic" hand.

I like the 3C bid suggested by some to show the club hand with heart fragment, however that would overlap with other hand types that you might bid 3C with. My favorite suggestion mentioned in this thread are those that mention double jump into diamonds to show picture fragment with own club suit. This bid overlaps with my favorite treatment (double jump to show 5 1/2 loser picture bid in C/H, 9+ cards) but these 2 hands types might be able to be combined in somehow, or maybe i reconsider and remove old way and implement this.

[bglover]

I would open this hand 2 clubs to start. It meets the 81/2 trick requirement and also the 4 defensive trick requirement. From there its straightforward and relatively simple to reach 7 after a 3club rebid. Responder will bid 4n (or 4c if minorwood) and locate all the cards need to reach 7.

[inquiry]

The hand Rado presents has generated several comments.. should you open 2NT? Should you open 2♣? Mike treats it as acol 2 in minor bid and leaps to 3NT (at least that has practical values, partner will know good minor suit as source of tricks).

I actually have acol -2-of minor as part of my multi-2♦ bid. This hand does not quality. Amazingly for me, this monster is not strong enough. So from a practical standpoint, this is a 1♣ opening bid for me. And as Rado says, this hand is "worth" a 3♣ jump. This is true, but we have agreed that this hand would be a 3♣ jump if partnre had bid 1♠, over 1♥ we can't do this jump. So here, the options are an off-shape 1♠ force (1RF) or a impossible reverse (2♦) followed by 3♣ to show the one suited great hand. Of course, Mike's solution is a possibility on this hand, and in fact, I would probably follow his lead at the table and bid 3NT. My partenr will know solid clubs and somewhat limited by my inability to use the acol 2 of a minor opening bid of 2♦'s, so the 3NT rebid has a lot to say for it in the system I play.

[badderzboy]

Playing Benji Acol,

2♣ - 3NT
4NT - 5♥
5NT - 6♦
7NT


(i) I'd open 2♣ showing ACOL 2 in an undisclosed suit
(ii) partner would bid 3NT showing strong balanced reply 12+
(iii) I'd bid 4NT Blackwood (no suit agreed)
(iv) 5♥ showing 2 A now I have only one loser (and poss Q♣)
(v) 5NT and after 6♦ showing 1 King
(vi) 7NT thank u very much :-)

Steve

[Flame]

In AMBRA we bid 17+ with 6♣ suit like this
1♣ -1♥
2♦ - 2♠ relay
3♣ - 6 clubs with 17+ hcp.

[Fluffy]

Come on people, get real, nobody plays that 3!c rebid that way, neither anyone would answer anything but 3/4!h to a 4th suit after 1!c-1!h-2!d-2!s (even if you play 2!s as natural).

My bidding at table would be quite simply, 1!c-1!h-2NT-3!c-3!h-6NT. but it doesn´t reach the good contract.

I can see only 2 ways on reaching a 7 contract:

1!c-1!h
2!d-2NT 2NT*=moderateur:hey man, I wanna play part score if you are minimum.
4!c-4!s 4!c**= I wont play part score, with my hand? ha!. 4!s=cuebid
5!c-5!d 5!c= Didn´t you wanna play part score. 5!d= No man, I lied, up for a 7?.
7!c-pass/7NT


*: Note that you cant bid 2!s because you will know nothing at all after 3!h is answered and have no bid now, imposible to investigate even if we make 6NT.
**: 4!d cuebid?, no, that would mean I wanted to play partscore in diamonds.


The other 1, its even simpler:

2NT-3!c
3NT-5NT 3NT=no majors, the same if you play it as 3!d. 5NT=14/15 bal,quantitativ
6!c-6NT 6!c= I wanna play grand but in !c, 6NT I dislike it.
7NT

[inquiry]

Fluffy, on Apr 8 2004, 08:02 AM, said:

Come on people, get real, nobody plays that 3!c rebid that way, neither anyone would answer anything but 3/4!h to a 4th suit after 1!c-1!h-2!d-2!s (even if you play 2!s as natural).

Well, I have always contented that Misho and I are nobody, but it is good to see others now agreeing. We, and others in this thread, have posted that we, in fact do rebid 3♣ exactly the way as being discussed. and such post go back months on this site. That is, this is not an "invention" to deal with this specific hand in this post. I did allow as most don't bid 3♣ that way, but a majority of PEOPLE play a jump to 4♣ here as a great ♣ suit, and good support (true, normally 4 cards) and slam try. Why? It bypasses 3NT, when 3♣ would have been forcing. IT can't be a splinter in your own suit. So the only application of this leap to 4♣ is good suit plus support for partner major, plus values for game opposite a minimum 1M response.

Now to your solution. I find the jump to 2NT with doubleton small spade, great ♥ support a total unsatisfactory for me. That is, 2NT simply would never be an option for me on this hand. First, it is an underbid, and second the ♠ problem. So, as I said in my original reply, you have to tell one of two lies. You can "lie" and reverse in Kx of ♦ and hope your partner doesn't insist on playing in ♦, or you can leap to 4♣. Somehow, lying about the number ♥ (short by one, but with three good ones) while getting the ♣ description accurate with 4♣ seems better than lying about the number of ♦ on the second round, and trying to catch up later. IF you eventually support ♥ after reversing, your partner will think you have a singleton or void is ♠ to boot.

[Flame]

Fluffy, on Apr 8 2004, 08:02 AM, said:

Come on people, get real, nobody plays that 3!c rebid that way, neither anyone would answer anything but 3/4!h to a 4th suit after 1!c-1!h-2!d-2!s (even if you play 2!s as natural).

My bidding at table would be quite simply, 1!c-1!h-2NT-3!c-3!h-6NT. but it doesn´t reach the good contract.

I can see only 2 ways on reaching a 7 contract:

1!c-1!h
2!d-2NT  2NT*=moderateur:hey man, I wanna play part score if you are minimum.
4!c-4!s    4!c**= I wont play part score, with my hand? ha!. 4!s=cuebid
5!c-5!d    5!c= Didn´t you wanna play part score. 5!d= No man, I lied, up for a 7?.
7!c-pass/7NT


*: Note that you cant bid 2!s because you will know nothing at all after 3!h is answered and have no bid now, imposible to investigate even if we make 6NT.
**: 4!d cuebid?, no, that would mean I wanted to play partscore in diamonds.


The other 1, its even simpler:

2NT-3!c
3NT-5NT  3NT=no majors, the same if you play it as 3!d. 5NT=14/15 bal,quantitativ
6!c-6NT  6!c= I wanna play grand but in !c, 6NT I dislike it.
7NT

I am just a nobody.

[the hog]

Well guys, my name is nobody as well. At least I am in good company with other nobodies.

Ron