[pclayton]

Here's a hand that sparked an interesting discussion in LA:

♠--- ♥ Axx ♦AKxxx ♣AKxxx

1♦ - 1♠ - 3♣ - 3♠ - 4♣ - 4♥.

What is 4♥? Being a forum regular I have my own opinions, but I'd like to hear others on this.

What now?

Feel free to comment on any of the previous calls too.

[FrancesHinden]

4H agrees clubs, shows a suitable hand for slam but not necessarily a heart control.

I get there by elimination:

4D is preference to diamonds
4S shows a desire to play in 4S
4NT is a bad hand that wishes it had bid 3NT last round (probably 6421 ish)
5C grudgingly agrees to play in clubs but is a command to pass
5D+ I don't think exist in practice (5H is probably 7024 or something bizarre)

I probably would have bid a gentle 2C over 1S.

[Apollo81]

If responder has hearts he would have bid 3♥, not 3♠. Thus I think this is a general move towards slam, probably in clubs, possibly in spades, possibly both-ish

For instance maybe he has AKQxxxx x xx xxx.

I think I would bid 5♥

[TimG]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 31 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

I probably would have bid a gentle 2C over 1S.

I agree.

I also agree that 4H agrees clubs and is a move toward slam.

[whereagles]

indeed. 4♥ = clubs + let's googogogogo

[pclayton]

So if its something for clubs, what is our continuation?

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 31 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

4H agrees clubs, shows a suitable hand for slam but not necessarily a heart control.

I get there by elimination:

4D is preference to diamonds
4S shows a desire to play in 4S
4NT is a bad hand that wishes it had bid 3NT last round (probably 6421 ish)
5C grudgingly agrees to play in clubs but is a command to pass
5D+ I don't think exist in practice (5H is probably 7024 or something bizarre)

I probably would have bid a gentle 2C over 1S.

Agreed with all of this.

BTW, construct some minimum hands for a 1♠ response and consider your chances in game: KQJxx xxx xx xxx is a GOOD 1♠ response.

A void in partner's suit is a warning sign we ignore at our peril.

2♣, and we bid again (3♣) over 2♦ and 2♠.. and make strong moves over other calls.

As for what to do now... playing my preferred methods, 4N by me is neither keycard nor natural... it is 'too good to bid 5♣, not good enough to force to slam'.

I am not worried about missing slam.. I did jump shift, and 4N says I have some extras in context... with x Kx AKJxx AKxxx, had I decided to jumpshift (which I wouldn't), I'd bid 5♣ now.

I don't see a forward-going move as inconsistent with my dislike of 3♣... this hand becomes a jumpshift once we know that he has slam interest in one of our suits.

If playing with someone who can't imagine 4N as other than keycard, my choices are to overbid or to underbid. I'd overbid... and if I am going to go that route, I may as well go whole hog via 5♥.. in fact, I have to do that otherwise he canb't play me for the heart Ace. He is still, essentially, unlimited.... he couldn't keycard (even if 4N by him would have been keycard) when lacking a heart control. So AKxxxx xx x QJxx or better is still possible.

[pclayton]

5♥ sounds right to me. However 6♣ to me says: "I understand your bid and I have good trump". Why the need to send the message?

Believe it or not, a slew of good players thought 4♥ was NATURAL. They claim pard might have a weak 7-5 for instance. I think this hand bids 3♥ over 3♣.

The player that held this hand passed, and he is a very good player. It might have actually made opposite: ♠AKxxxxx ♥Kx ♦Qx ♣Qx, but I don't know for sure. So pard just had a good hand but no clear direction. He'll do the right thing over anything you bid, as long as you BID. 6N looks like a good spot to me.

Some think 5♥ is a "I think 4♥ is natural, but in case its not, this is a hedge against a disaster", or "I think 4♥ is a cue, but in case it isn't, we'll just be one level higher".

Echo those that think 2♣ is the right call earlier.

[mikeh]

looks to me like a 4♦ call, rather than the ambiguous 4♥ punt. Not only did most here take it as clubs, but others took it as natural, so it has to be ambiguous.

4♦ is forcing, and will engender a 4♥ cue, I suppose, over which all or most paths seem to lead to 6N... the main issue will be avoiding 7N.

[jdonn]

I strongly agree with 3♣ vs 2♣. Is there no limit or do some people just never jump shift? You have play for game opposite 2-4 in the minors either way in a yarb.

[kenrexford]

3♣ seems right.

4♥ is a club move, but I'd bid 4♦.

After 4♥, 5♥ seems right.

[han]

Agree with 3C, would have bid 3NT over 3S.

I guess I play this as a COG, new to me though.