[han]

What is 4NT in this auction:

1D - 1S
2C - 2H*
3H - 4NT

2H was fourth suit, forcing to game. It seems to me that both keycards for hearts and quantitative are reasonable options and neither can be bid any other way.

[jdonn]

I think it's quantitative and 5♥ is the only (vague) slam try for hearts. Sad I know.... at least that gives you a way to move toward slam without actually bidding it in both strains, and follows my general principles too in that we haven't agreed a suit and aren't under pressure by the opponents, so 4NT is natural if it can be.

I understand that >99% of bridge players would take it as keycard, I am saying what I think it should be though.

[kenrexford]

IMO:

3♠ = natural
3NT = natural
4minor = fit (RKCB if agreed)
4NT = quantitative

Heart cannot be "agreed" for slam purposes, IMO. With that hand, Responder would have bid 3♥ instead of 2♥ (5-5, GF).

[jdonn]

Justin has the artificial structure and Ken plays everything totally natural.

[Winstonm]

It's dumb to treat this as quantitative when no one has much of a clearly-defined range. This may be a simple case where knowing if enough aces are held is the key to slam.

No suit agreed; now quantitative ranges established - gee, what a rarity - 4NT as Blackwood.

[helene_t]

No suit agreed so it's quantitative. P's shape is well-defined.

[nige1]

han, on Mar 29 2008, 12:39 AM, said:

What is 4NT in this auction:
1♦ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥*
3♥ - 4NT
2H was fourth suit, forcing to game. It seems to me that both keycards for hearts and quantitative are reasonable options and neither can be bid any other way.

I've no idea, but I like the suggestions of JLall and KenRexford. To make a quantitative try, perhaps you could bid a (forcing) 3♠ first. Then
- 4♣ = RKCB for ♣
- 4♦ = RKCB for ♦
- 4N = RKCB for ♥
- 3♠ then 4N = Quantitative.

I assume that, unless opener has extra values his shape is 0454. With a normal 1444, I assume that he would rebid 1N over 1♠. What is American practice?

With my assumption, 3♠ becomes what the Sharples termed an Impulse bid - unable to limit the hand. Rather like 4th suit forcing.

[han]

I wasn't sure how partner would take 4NT so I indeed took the 3S - 4NT route.

[kenrexford]

nige1, on Mar 29 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

han, on Mar 29 2008, 12:39 AM, said:

What is 4NT in this auction:
1♦ - 1♠
2♣ - 2♥*
3♥ - 4NT
2H was fourth suit, forcing to game. It seems to me that both keycards for hearts and quantitative are reasonable options and neither can be bid any other way.

I've no idea, but I like the suggestions of JLall and KenRexford. To make a quantitative try, perhaps you could bid a (forcing) 3♠ first. Then
- 4♣ = RKCB for ♣
- 4♦ = RKCB for ♦
- 4N = RKCB for ♥
- 3♠ then 4N = Quantitative.

I assume that, unless opener has extra values his shape is 0454. With a normal 1444, I assume that he would rebid 1N over 1♠. What is American practice?

With my assumption, 3♠ becomes what the Sharples termed an Impulse bid - unable to limit the hand. Rather like 4th suit forcing.

I'm not sure that this is a good sequence for 4minor as RKCB. That seems to put a lot of pressure on Responder to buy or sell.

IMO, the minor calls should be simply natural, perhaps with the next-up (Kickback?) as RKCB by Opener (or anything else hedgy cues), or two-up as RKCB, allowing Opener to "hedgy cue" a LTTC bid below the ask. The latter would be my preference, personally. (4♣ agrees clubs, 4♥ is RKCB, Opener can bid 4♦ over 4♣ as LT. 4♦ agrees diamonds, 4♠ is RKCB, Opener can bid 4♥ over 4♦ as LT. Anyone can cue past (instead of) RKCB as a mild bump/Q.)

Is that artificial enough, Josh? LOL

[han]

That can't be right Justin, it would solve everything!

[helene_t]

I this auction opener's shape is almost completely known while nothing is know about responder other than 4+ spades. So what about 3♠ as a relay?

[kenrexford]

Jlall, on Mar 29 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

3S=spades

4C=puppet to 4D then...
---4H=slam try in hearts
---4S=slam try in clubs
---4N=slam try in diamonds

4D=puppet to 4H then
---4S=to play
---4N=quant
---5C=to play
---5D=to play

4H=RKC in clubs
4S=RKC in diamonds
4N=RKC in hearts

Not bad.

[skjaeran]

han, on Mar 29 2008, 09:47 PM, said:

That can't be right Justin, it would solve everything!

Except one or both forgetting it when it comes up every leap year?

[jdonn]

Well it's not perfect since you lose 3 steps to agree either minor. But I have to admit the plusses seem to outweigh that, probably.