[helene_t]

MPs, club game, the field is quite strong tonight but the opps at this table are quite weak. You are a decent player and p is me.

Axxx-Qxxx-x-KQxx

Playing English Acol you normally open a major 4-card but you forgot that this exact shape is an exception. The correct opening is 1♣, as demonstrated by the auction that unfolded:

1♥-2♦
2♥-4♣* (splinter)
4♥-6♥

(Over p's 2♦ which promises only 9 points, 2♥ and 3♦ are the only non-GF rebids).

Edit: Forgot to include a "Ugh, this is way too high and/or wrong denomination" but there is an "other" option.

[Rossoneri]

Yikes!

Sounds, feels and looks like one of those crazy bidding misunderstandings that I experienced over the weekend.

[jtfanclub]

I assume I'm in the distinct minority when I say that I'd just pass this hand first seat playing Acol.

[P_Marlowe]

Others.

I may have overlooked it, but can I see partners
hand before making a statement?
If I make a mistake, before I start singing my Swan
Song, I usually await the final result, most of the time
it turns better out than I thought (and deserved).

For whats it worth, I would have passed the hand
during the time I played Acol, long ago, but I am
pretty sure.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[zasanya]

6 loser 2 quick tricks 11 hcp. I will open 1♣.But suppose a♣ or something gets mixed up with ♥ then I have no option but to rebid 2♥ followed by 4♥.If P bids 6 after that why worry?At worst I will be playing 4-3♥ fit.Worse things have happened in the past.

[Fluffy]

Why do these damn european foreings love so much that silly splinter????

[dcvetkov]

Fluffy, on Mar 26 2008, 04:23 AM, said:

Why do these damn european foreings love so much that silly splinter????

Because it works and it allows you to ( usually) correctly evaluate your hand.
I expect this 6H to be poor contract, unless partner has substantal strength.
Partner should be 4-3-5-1 or simular

[helene_t]

Fluffy, on Mar 26 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

Why do these damn european foreings love so much that silly splinter????

Good question. I'm embarrassed to say this but actually I wasn't sure what other forcing raise were available. In fact I didn't want to splinter but would have prefered a generic forcing raise.

My hand was Qx-AKTxxx-AQxx-A

[Codo]

helene_t, on Mar 26 2008, 10:43 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Mar 26 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

Why do these damn european foreings love so much that silly splinter????

Good question. I'm embarrassed to say this but actually I wasn't sure what other forcing raise were available. In fact I didn't want to splinter but would have prefered a generic forcing raise.

My hand was Qx-AKTxxx-AQxx-A

There is no bid in aclo to show your six card gameforicng slaminteressted hand at once? Or at least at the second turn of the bidding?
You have to sail to slam without knowing if you have the spades stopped?

Looks like a quite regional dervation from basic Acol, doesn´t it?

[helene_t]

I think it's standard Acol. I might be wrong. Of course serious partnerships have some kind of forcing raise but AFAIK there is no standard. I play Jacoby 2N in some partnerships but having played with ten different local partners since january and being too lazy to make notes about agreements, I don't know if I played it with this p.

As for the not knowing about spades maybe I could have bid 5♣ over 4♥ and p could have confirmed a spade control with 5♦ (last train) but I usually don't bother to use slam conventions.

[Apollo81]

I don't feel anything before seeing the dummy. Obviously we'd prefer to have more hearts and/or working HCP. Why must this be a bad contract? We only promised 4♥s and never showed extras, if I'm reading the auction right.

[helene_t]

No we did promise five hearts, that's why we should have opened 1♣.

[david_c]

It doesn't feel good (until dummy goes down). Partner will normally only have 3 hearts on this auction.

Playing Acol with a pickup partner I would assume there was no forcing raise. (But it's probably the first thing I would add to the system if I was starting a regular partnership.) I think you did pretty well in the circumstances.

I wouldn't have opened the bidding on the 4414 11-count.

[ArtK78]

Even if my 2♥ rebid showed 5 hearts, partner should not be splintering without at least 4 hearts, so I don't feel that bad. Partner may have a super hand (she did bid a slam opposite nothing more than an opening bid with 5 hearts and potential club wastage).

The actual hand makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

By the way, if one really expects only 3 card heart support on this auction, THAT is silly, not the system.

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

Even if my 2♥ rebid showed 5 hearts, partner should not be splintering without at least 4 hearts, so I don't feel that bad.

That goes beyond nonstandard. It is downright unusual. This auction would be completely normal with 3361.

[gwnn]

where's my "I feel sick, I forgot the system, I'm a noob" option?

[ArtK78]

jdonn, on Mar 26 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

Even if my 2♥ rebid showed 5 hearts, partner should not be splintering without at least 4 hearts, so I don't feel that bad.

That goes beyond nonstandard. It is downright unusual. This auction would be completely normal with 3361.

If your partner opened 1♥ (playing 5-card majors) would you splinter on 3361? How is this different when the rebid shows 5 cards?

[Fluffy]

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 26 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

Even if my 2♥ rebid showed 5 hearts, partner should not be splintering without at least 4 hearts, so I don't feel that bad.

That goes beyond nonstandard. It is downright unusual. This auction would be completely normal with 3361.

If your partner opened 1♥ (playing 5-card majors) would you splinter on 3361? How is this different when the rebid shows 5 cards?

Yes, biding my suit and then splintering AFTER on 5 card major shows normally 3 cards (4 is possible, but not expected). Its the way to bid 6331 and 5431.

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 05:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 26 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Mar 26 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

Even if my 2♥ rebid showed 5 hearts, partner should not be splintering without at least 4 hearts, so I don't feel that bad.

That goes beyond nonstandard. It is downright unusual. This auction would be completely normal with 3361.

If your partner opened 1♥ (playing 5-card majors) would you splinter on 3361? How is this different when the rebid shows 5 cards?

Sorry no free answers for obvious questions. Pay up